Almost as old as the  State I live in (1889). 

Presuming you post letter to owner's agent, and they contract you to calc 
system.

What c-factor would you use? Internal pipe examination? Have i.d.'s stayed 
consistent?

Best

Bruce

> On Apr 27, 2016, at 06:31, Scott Futrell <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> You need to be on the record, the letter is a good idea.
> 
> The deposition questions are not fun...So, Mr. Williams, you are a 
> Professional Engineer, right? ... I'd keep going, but it wouldn't be in my 
> best interest. 
> 
> Scott
>  
> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
> Cell: (612) 759-5556
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] 
> On Behalf Of Todd Williams
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:20 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Existing pipe schedule and storage
> 
> The original building was built in 1884 and the sprinkler system installed at 
> that time. Since the standardized pipe schedule did not come into being until 
> 1896, my assumption is that the sizing was at the installers discretion. The 
> branch pipe sizing is less that what was called for in 1896 edition of the 
> sprinkler standard (3/4-1-1-1.1/4-1.1/4, etc). I seriously doubt that this 
> would meet a hydraulic calculation. However, this system has been 
> great-great-grandfathered in so far.
> My plan is to write a letter to the owner's agent.
> 
> 
> Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT
> 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell)
> Sent using CloudMagic
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2]
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Scott Futrell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good morning Todd.
> 
> 
> 
> It is my opinion that you need to notify someone that an evaluation in 
> accordance with NFPA 25 (2014 edition) 4.1.6 and 4.1.7 needs to be 
> undertaken. Code of Ethics. If you've seen it, as a FPE, you are obligated to 
> question it if it doesn't appear to be correct.
> 
> 
> 
> It would take some research to determine what edition of NFPA 13 was 
> applicable at the time of the original construction and if there was a change 
> in occupancy for the 12 ft. storage. But, protecting 12 ft. of class IV 
> without a calculation to verify the water supply versus the pipe schedule 
> pipe sizing could be problematic.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the fire department approving it goes, from the 2012 IFC, 105.3.6 
> Compliance with Code. The issuance or granting of a permit shall not be 
> construed to be a permit for, or an approval of, any violation of any of the 
> provisions of this code or of any other ordinance of the jurisdiction. 
> Permits presuming to give authority to violate or cancel the provisions of 
> this code or other ordinances of the jurisdiction shall not be valid...Any 
> addition to or alteration of approved construction documents shall be 
> approved in advance by the fire code official, as evidenced by the issuance 
> of a new or amended permit. 105.4.4 Approved documents. Construction 
> documents approved by the fire code official are approved with the intent 
> that such construction documents comply in all respects with the code. 
> Review and approval by the fire code officials shall not relieve the 
> applicant of the responsibility of compliance with this code. [emphasis added]
> 
> 
> 
> If it is designed, installed, tested, inspected, and maintained incorrectly 
> it is still wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
> 
> Cell: (612) 759-5556
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd 
> Williams
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 5:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Existing pipe schedule and storage
> 
> 
> 
> I am working at a facility where there is an existing OH pipe schedule 
> system over 12ft palletized Class IV storage. The fire department has 
> approved it, but I question whether it will provide adequate protection. I 
> did not see anything in NFPA 13 that requires storage occupancies to be 
> hydraulically calculated. Am I missing something?
> 
> This is outside of the project I am working on, but as an FPE, I feel 
> obligated to notify someone if I see a potential hazard such as this.
> 
> 
> 
> Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT
> 
> 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell)
> 
> Sent using CloudMagic
> 
> [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> 
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Reply via email to