The information of value at least once a year when you do the main drain test. Maybe you could add both BOR and Source demands, but I don’t agree with posting Source data in lieu of BOR.
SL From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 10:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Base of riser on placards I'll ask the unthinkable question, is the BoR demand on the placard worthwhile? Hydraulic calculations are done back to the effective point of the flow test. The underground losses, hose demand and sometimes backflow preventer losses are taken before the BoR. Consequently you cannot compare the BoR demand to a new public water test and make a valid conclusion without a full set of original plans and calculations. Wouldn't it make more sense to put the demand at the water source on the placard? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) Sent using CloudMagic<https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Ed Kramer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I’ve asked this question in the past and the answers have been all over the board. I tend to think the BOR location needs to be consistent from project to project, whether it’s a single system riser or multiple system risers. In our part of the universe, most (but not all) backflow preventers are located inside the building immediately downstream of the underground flange. I locate the BOR at the underground flange on all systems. By placing data from that location on the Hydraulic Design Placard, it makes it easier for someone else to compare the sprinkler system demand to water supply data. I believe the intent is to include the combined hose allowance, but got nothing from the standard to back that up. With a strong water supply (lots of volume), available pressure while flowing the sprinkler plus hose demand is going to be virtually the same as pressure available while flowing only sprinkler demand. But many of the water supplies we work with are marginal. Removing 100, 250 or 500 gpm combined hose allowance from the water supply can make a very significant difference in available pressure. So when comparing sprinkler demand to water supply data, knowing the combined hose allowance is very helpful. Respectfully, Ed Kramer Bamford Fire Sprinkler From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 3:06 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Base of riser on placards What's the general consensus on the location of the 'base of riser' for hydraulic placards that everyone uses? See Figure A 24.5 in the 2010 Edition of 13 and/or 24.5.2 I feel its supposed to be at the base of each sprinkler riser (where you have multiple systems) where it ties into a common header. Others in my office think its where the incoming flange comes into the riser room. If you have a vertical riser with a vertical backflow, then these two points would be the same with either method in my line of thinking. Also, is the hose indicated on the placards supposed to be inside hose only, or combined in and out? I just realized after reading this today that it could only be referring to inside hose, but I've always put the combined hose there... Thanks, Benjamin Young
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