At my last stop we worked for a single owner with a couple big sites and deep pockets. We ended up coordinating every annual test with the electricians so they could do the readings. The owner budgeted for and replaced the pump controllers over a couple year period so they all had external readouts for that info. Unfortunately many owners aren't so well off, and for most sprinklers are on the list down around bathroom fixtures for things they want to mess with.
Mike Morey CFPS 3229 • NICET S.E.T. 123677 Project Manager • Fire Protection Group Shambaugh & Son, LP an EMCOR Company 7614 Opportunity Drive • Fort Wayne, IN • 46825 direct 260.487.7824 / cell 260.417.0625 / fax 260.487.7991 email [email protected] From: Jay Stough <[email protected]> To: Sprinkler Forum <[email protected]> Date: 03/28/2017 07:02 AM Subject: Re: Another NFPA 25 Question - Controllers Sent by: "Sprinklerforum" <[email protected]> A few years ago we changed our procedure so that if the controller does not have a digital read out of amps and volts, we would not provide it. We will not open controllers; not worth the risk. We have told owners and their insurance companies that we would be happy to provide a qualified electrician on a T & M basis if those numbers are required. No one has taken us up on it in the past 3 or 4 years. Jay Stough NICET IV LAYOUT NICET III ITM On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Bruce Verhei <[email protected]> wrote: As a municipal fire inspector I always made sure I stood well back when the controller door was open. Flash burns are ugly. It's not like getting a simple broken arm or something. But I'm usually witnessing acceptance test. Most annual tests do include amps on each leg. Some have lead this discussion away from what is code towards how should this be addressed. This is good in this case. I'd bet few NFPA 25 inspectors are NFPA 70E whizzes. Diesel controllers. Not the same at all. Best Bruce Verhei On Mar 27, 2017, at 09:14, John Irwin <[email protected]> wrote: Great answer. John Irwin - CET Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-000053 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: [email protected] <image003.png> From: Sprinklerforum [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Blocker Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 12:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Another NFPA 25 Question - Controllers The only ones we do in house are diesel drivers. This decision was only made when the insurance agent explained everything we would need to do to cover our rear. Also we found out that local licensing requires a master electrician be the one to touch high voltage. So the scenario presented to us was that my inspector is hurt by electrical equipment. The attorneys would as for his license as an electrician, copies of his safety training that we provided. If we couldn't show all this we were a sitting duck in court. JJ Sent from my iPhone 6 On Mar 27, 2017, at 9:52 AM, John Irwin < [email protected]> wrote: You say 440 volt … So you do the 208v yourself? John Irwin - CET Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-000053 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: [email protected] <image003.png> From: Sprinklerforum [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Blocker Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 11:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Another NFPA 25 Question - Controllers The easiest solution we found when faced with this very problem was to call in the experts. When we asked our insurance agent about this we discovered that we could end up needing to change our policy to cover high voltage exposure. So we now use manufacturers recommended pump service companies to perform the test. This not only keeps us away from the 440 volt 3 phase power but it also allows the specialist to find issues that the average sprinkler inspector would not notice. Our reports are carrying more weight now as well since a P.E. signs the pump report. JJ Sent from my iPhone 6 On Mar 27, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Matthew J Willis <[email protected]> wrote: IS voltage a required item on the report? Along with amps? I always had the PPE and shook hands within.. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Project Manager Rapid Fire Protection Inc. 1530 Samco Road Rapid City, SD 57702 Office-605.348.2342 Direct Line-605.593.5063 Cell-605.391.2733 Fax:-605.348.0108 <image001.png> From: Sprinklerforum [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Another NFPA 25 Question - Controllers There is a TIA to NFPA 25 effectively saying stay the hell out of it. We’ll see where it goes but it makes sense considering the hazard. What do our pump inspectors herein think? Roland Roland Huggins, PE - Senior VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives On Mar 27, 2017, at 4:32 AM, John Denhardt <[email protected]> wrote: My personal opinion - no. John August Denhardt, P.E. Strickland Fire Protection On Mar 27, 2017, at 6:34 AM, John Irwin < [email protected]> wrote: What are an inspector’s responsibilities when it comes to opening up a fire pump controller? One of our inspector’s wants me to buy him some PPE so he can comfortably open up the fire pump controller. I am certainly not opposed to this but I have talked to a number of inspectors at other companies who say if there isn’t an external meter on the cabinet, the voltage isn’t getting recorded. Should sprinkler inspectors even be in the cabinet? 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