THAT is one hell’va an idea. It just so happens AFSA’s office is in this guy’s jurisdiction!
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 11:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Sprinklers over low partitions I had a different technical situation, but a similar AHJ one once. I got an informal interpretation from AFSA, penned by Roland, supporting my case, and this guy who'd been a house designer for ten years, a tail-board jockey for two, and a plan reviewer for one said Roland obviously didn't understand the code. On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 6:33 AM, John Paulsen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Lol, I can easily see myself assuming the PIA role on this one! But I have to respect my clients desire not to poison the “AHJ well” for their future projects. I have tried to reason with this guy and so has my client’s design department manager and the plan reviewer is not budging. John P. Crown FSD From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 9:26 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Sprinklers over low partitions Copy that. As a third-party designer, I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, I have a reputation throughout Southern California as being a real pain in the ass when it comes to bickering with fire officials about interpretations. Design-build contractors with turnkey responsibility are arguing from a position of vested interest. As a third-party designer, my interest in a particular issue is for the good of the order. The cost difference isn't coming out of my pocket, so that makes me a somewhat less-biased advocate in that regard. Steve -------- Original message -------- From: John Paulsen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Date: 4/8/17 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Sprinklers over low partitions Steve: If I were the installing contractor I would definitely approach the problem the way you suggest. But as a sub-contracted designer, it is up to my client to choose the fight, not me. As much as I agree with you, my hands are tied. John P Crown FSD From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 9:18 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Sprinklers over low partitions I would ask the owner of the project to help you acquire information about mini storage industry standard practices. The reason that the partitions are not full height is the same reason that hospital curtains have a drop with a between the track and the top of the panel - it's for fire sprinkler distribution! The design of this building and those partial height partitions is to allow the exact basis of design concept that you have undertaken for the fire sprinkler system. The first mini storage units I worked on as a designer had full height walls. When you have 5 by 5, 5 by 10 and 10 by 10 cells that each have a sprinkler, you can literally end up with 40 sprinklers in the design area. After doing a couple projects with ESFR-like demands, we worked with a local storage company to drop the walls and use heavy duty mesh on top of the partitions for security between individual units. This is now the norm and I would not take no for an answer in this situation. Get the owner of the project to help you in any way that they can. If, as owners often do, they try to pawn this off as your problem, then I would hit them for the additive change order you're entitled to for extra sprinklers and larger pipe size. That will get their attention and likely lead to some support for your argument. Steve -------- Original message -------- From: John Paulsen <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Date: 4/8/17 5:14 AM (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Sprinklers over low partitions We are in the final phases of designing a self-storage facility (Ord Haz, Grp II) that has upright, quick response sprinklers with the deflectors at least 18” above the top of the individual storage unit partitions. In some cases where the units are 5’x5’ or 5’x10’ we have located the sprinklers directly over the top of the low partition. Our design concept is that the sprinkler will throw evenly to each side of the partition and cover the space on either side. This prevents us from have to “stagger” the sprinklers with arm-overs to prevent spacing closer than 6’ apart. We have also provided the manufacturer’s sprinkler spray pattern information to support our design concept. Now the local plan reviewer is telling us that he will not accept this sprinkler arrangement and that each unit has to have sprinkler(s) over them. This is the second project that we have done in this jurisdiction and we ran into a similar issue with the first one that we solved with the sprinkler over the partition arrangement. Now he will not accept this solution, but he doesn’t site any code or handbook reference that we are violating. Is our design concept contrary to the provisions of NFPA-13? A review of NFPA-13 only specifically deals with sprinkler spacing over low partitions in light hazard occupancies, not OH II, so I have no code guidance. Comments would be greatly appreciated. John Paulsen – SET Crown Fire System Design 6282 Seeds Rd. Grove City, OH 43123 P – 614-782-2438 <tel:(614)%20782-2438> F – 614-782-2374 <tel:(614)%20782-2374> C – 614-348-8206 <tel:(614)%20348-8206> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org -- Ron Greenman [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 253.576.9700 <tel:(253)%20576-9700> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)
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