There is also the option to have a remote area with different hazard
classifications within it (and the size of it is predicated upon whether there
are walls around the smaller, higher hazard portion). Look at A.11.1.2.
Roland
Roland Huggins, PE
Senior Vice President, Engineering & Technical Services
American Fire Sprinkler Association
p: 214-349-5965 ext121
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> On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I’ve run into a few AHJs that have specifically thrown this section to us for
> paint booths. We also had this thrown at us on a tire carousel storage.
> This caused total havoc on the projects.
>
> The paint booth was in an existing facility designed to OH2. They paint
> booth had 6 sprinklers. We had to run a 6” bulk across the facility to get
> this paint booth. It seems like overkill, but following that section as it
> is written, we had to flow 800 gpm for the area.
>
> <image002.jpg> <http://www.mfpdesign.com/>
> Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
> MFP Design, LLC
> 3356 E Vallejo Ct
> Gilbert, AZ 85298
> 480-505-9271
> fax: 866-430-6107
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> www.mfpdesign.com <http://www.mfpdesign.com/>
>
> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D&reserved=0>
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0>
>
> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price
> is forgotten.”
>
>
> From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Bruce
> Verhei
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 8:17 AM
> To: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>
> I read it as Ed notes. As well other example of paint spray booth I’d
> question too. Paint spray booths can have sprinkler protection in an
> otherwise unsprinklerd building. They’d all be dry chem total flood if we
> drove an underground sized up that much. Just the cost of larger DDCVA would
> be a big impact.
>
> Best.
>
> Bruce Verhei
>
> On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:01, Ed Kramer <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> Steve, you don’t mention the edition of 13 you’re working with, but I’m
>> looking in the ’16.
>>
>> 23.4.4.2.5 is a sub-section of 23.4.4.2 “Density/Area Method”. The section
>> above that is 23.4.4.1.1 “Room Design Method”. I don’t see any similar
>> requirement in that section. I’d argue that 23.4.4.2.5 doesn’t apply to the
>> room design method. But some days I just feel like arguing. J
>>
>> Ed K
>> Bamford Fire
>>
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Prahl,
>> Craig/GVL
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 7:33 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: RE: Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>>
>> I feel your pain. This additional flow rate added to a small room has never
>> made any sense and I’d love to understand the logic of being forced to flow
>> 1,950 gpm into a room that is only required to deliver 150 gpm.
>>
>> Is there any actual benefit to this exercise?
>>
>> It’s amazing how buildings were assumed adequately protected when all that
>> was used was the pipe schedule method.
>>
>>
>> Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 |
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com
>> <http://www.jacobs.com/>
>> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
>>
>> From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Steve
>> Leyton
>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:19 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>>
>> We have a building with fire rated and secure compartments that are less
>> than the NFPA 13 minimum design areas so we have calculated those areas
>> using the room design method where the compartments comply. Two are fire
>> protected with preaction sprinklers and 23.4.4.2.5 seems to imply that where
>> a design area is flowing less than what the density would be across the
>> minimum required design area, then a “kicker” needs to be added to raise the
>> flow rate to that figure. Since we’re in Light Hazard and the design area
>> is only about 1,000 sq. ft., we’re flowing about 150 GPM. But they’re
>> coming after us for 1,500 x 1.3 = 1,950 saying the required flow rate is
>> 195. If it’s LH, we can downward adjust and the demand drops to 117 which
>> we satisfy. In all my years I’ve never had this section thrown at us so
>> could use any help or opinion regarding exactly how this section should be
>> applied.
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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