We DID nail that point down specifically by doing exactly what argumentative
Mr. Kramer said. Location has meaning and the title of said location is what
the criteria is applied too.
Roland
Roland Huggins, PE
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American Fire Sprinkler Association
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> On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> That’s a VERY good point. I spoke with a well-known and sometimes-respected
> committee member last night (you know who you are) who told me that it wasn’t
> the committee’s intent to apply this provision to a room design. I
> questioned him about why they didn’t include that exception specifically and
> we couldn’t really nail that down but I think you’ve hit on how they
> organized the requirements hierarchically in that regard.
>
> SL
>
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Ed
> Kramer
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 8:02 AM
> To: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>
> Steve, you don’t mention the edition of 13 you’re working with, but I’m
> looking in the ’16.
>
> 23.4.4.2.5 is a sub-section of 23.4.4.2 “Density/Area Method”. The section
> above that is 23.4.4.1.1 “Room Design Method”. I don’t see any similar
> requirement in that section. I’d argue that 23.4.4.2.5 doesn’t apply to the
> room design method. But some days I just feel like arguing. J
>
> Ed K
> Bamford Fire
>
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Prahl,
> Craig/GVL
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 7:33 AM
> To: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>
> I feel your pain. This additional flow rate added to a small room has never
> made any sense and I’d love to understand the logic of being forced to flow
> 1,950 gpm into a room that is only required to deliver 150 gpm.
>
> Is there any actual benefit to this exercise?
>
> It’s amazing how buildings were assumed adequately protected when all that
> was used was the pipe schedule method.
>
>
> Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 |
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com
> <http://www.jacobs.com/>
> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
>
> From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Steve
> Leyton
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:19 PM
> To: [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Intent of 23.4.4.2.5
>
> We have a building with fire rated and secure compartments that are less than
> the NFPA 13 minimum design areas so we have calculated those areas using the
> room design method where the compartments comply. Two are fire protected
> with preaction sprinklers and 23.4.4.2.5 seems to imply that where a design
> area is flowing less than what the density would be across the minimum
> required design area, then a “kicker” needs to be added to raise the flow
> rate to that figure. Since we’re in Light Hazard and the design area is
> only about 1,000 sq. ft., we’re flowing about 150 GPM. But they’re coming
> after us for 1,500 x 1.3 = 1,950 saying the required flow rate is 195. If
> it’s LH, we can downward adjust and the demand drops to 117 which we satisfy.
> In all my years I’ve never had this section thrown at us so could use any
> help or opinion regarding exactly how this section should be applied.
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
>
>
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