If you are exceeding 877gpm, the building is probably already gone - or some 
burst pipe is taking up all of the water anyway. At that point, torching your 
diesel motor is probably going to be a lesser concern. Best case scenario is 
that someone drove their car into a standpipe, and a busted 4" is draining the 
pipes down. Someone would probably find out about that quickly enough to shut 
off the motor (hopefully!)

I am personally not a huge fan of suction control valves. That is just one more 
item that has the ability to shut off sprinkler flow to two entire apartment 
buildings. Unless the water company is worried about city-wide damage the water 
system, it seems like the greatest hazard/cost would be the buildings and the 
people in them. I would lean toward a more simple system.

Matt 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf 
Of Tom Duross via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Tom Duross <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: FP Suction Control Valve

I should have rambled a little more..
 750 gpm pump runs down to 20 PSI at 877 gpm (117%).  Worried should water 
demand exceed that and cavitate the main and loose cooling water to the engine. 
 Then we loose the pump house and the buildings.  Residential areas are 
compartmentized so not as much worried about 2-4 heads going off but concerned 
about parking garages, standpipes and hydrants.  Told local FD Capt. We would 
augment and ring hydrants per 291 and also placard stairways but wanted a fail 
safe to protect pump for down the road.  FD is onboard including their outside 
PE.
TD


Why are you wanting to install the suction control valve? Was it requested by 
the FD or water supplier? 

I would be concerned about removing the PRV without knowing all about what is 
downstream. It would be just your luck that some contractor got a variance to 
build the mains out of pool-noodles that burst at 110psi...

Matt 


-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf 
Of Tom Duross via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Tom Duross <[email protected]>
Subject: FP Suction Control Valve

Good morning Campers.  Looking for advice and comments.

I have an existing diesel driven fire pump in a prefabricated pump house 
installed in 2012 serving 2 apartment buildings.

I first tested this pump in 2017, had 13 hours on it, ran fine but we ran out 
of water at just about 100% capacity.

Spent the day with the water department a few days later checking underground 
valves, flowing a few street main's hydrants, basically came to the conclusion 
that this is all we got.  Wrote up a report, suggested they hire an FPE to see 
if the pump's tested capacity meets requirements, how did this happen, what 
about the hydrants off this system, stuff like that.  I think I stirred the 
sleepy caldron a little.

Didn't hear back from the client until this spring.  Apparently they changed 
ITM contractors and the new one didn't pan out.  They had a balcony fire May 
2021, gas grille, 13R system with no attic protection, non-completed attic 
separations and fire walls, etc.  Fortunately they had a response so quickly it 
never made it to penetrate the eaves and soffits and was extinguished between 
the 5th and 6th (top) floors.  Local FD must have had a field day with a Q20 of 
about 800 and closest city hydrant ¼ mile away.  Waiting for incident report to 
review.

 

So back to my query.  It's a xy&em pump house.  All welded sch40 and painted.  
Not the greatest build as there's a 6" BFP vertically installed right off the 
incoming service with elbows turning it around and down to the floor to feed 
the pump.  Just a few spacers in the piping so no room for slipping in this 
device unless something gets removed or moved.  4-15 of #20
(2013) says between the pump discharge and check and I get that but also defers 
to the mfgr. for direction.  Looking at the various offerings most are a little 
vague on placement and even one says after the pump discharge valve.  Without 
major surgery, I have 2 spots to slip in this 20" long device.  I can remove 
the relief valve between the discharge increaser and pump check and put it 
there 'or' I can remove the tee feeding a 6" storz and check located between 
the discharge valve and the city bypass.  The former will allow me to test 
through the device but the latter will not.  I don't believe either of these 
appurtenances are necessary and I will explain (he's still rambling?  
Jeepers..).  The engine is a small JD inline 4 running 3000 rpm, single ECM, 
max. speed is 3300.  Churn is 155 at 3025.  I haven't physically done it but if 
I extrapolate to 3300 I get 170 psi.  I'm below
175 so I think the PRV can go.  If I opt to remove the storz I can but testing 
this pump will have to be via the 3 hydrants it serves, in addition to the 2 
buildings.  I honestly don't know why the engineer (small E) had a storz 
included as this house it atop a hill in the woods ½ mile away from a city 
hydrant and these buildings.

 

OK, done rambling.  Loose the PRV or keep scratching my head?

 

Let's go Red Sox!

 

Tom Duross

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