AWWA used to NOT recommend BPA upstream of fire hydrants. 

Haven’t checked in a few years now. 

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh
Eze 11:19

On Nov 18, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Bob Caputo <[email protected]> wrote:



Backflow preventers are actually not always required.  NFPA standards do not require them – but where the water purveyor does, NFPA provides installation requirements.  When a back flow is required, the type and location are the purview of the water district.

 

If arranged to allow full forward flow, a hydrant or even the annual fire pump test or standpipe flow testing could qualify as the means to perform a forward flow test

 

 

Bob Caputo, CFPS

President

American Fire Sprinkler Association

c:     760-908-7753

p:

214-349-5965 ext124

w:

firesprinkler.org  

      

 

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From: Michael Slaughter <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 4:14 PM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: BFP on underground supply

 

FYI,

 

A question from an AHJ. In many cases, we receive a dedicated underground fire line to serve fire hydrants and the building fire sprinkler system. (Domestic if provided through a separate line)

 

When this occurs, the local water authorities always require a backflow (in an underground vault) to separate the public water supply from the private water system.

 

With this approach, we do not require a backflow on the riser and use the yard hydrant system for the forward flow testing of the backflow.

 

Does anyone see an issue with this approach? If so, please advise we can revise our procedure.

 

Mike Slaughter

Risk Reduction Division

Travis County Emergency Services District 2

Office:    (512) 989-4531

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 4:03 PM Bob Caputo <[email protected]> wrote:

So, why would it matter where the backflow preventer is located?  NFPA is clear in the requirement to provide a forward flow test connection. If the backflow is in a vault or a pit, the intent is still clear.  I am the current chair of NFPA 24, and I think most members would agree this connection is better located on the control riser – but there is no restriction on where you place this connection.  NFPA 13, chapter 6 is a direct extract of underground installation requirements, provided so installer/maintainers don’t even have to purchase a copy of NFPA 24. 

 

Are we a solution in search of a problem on this one?

 

Bob

 

 

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Bob Caputo, CFPS

President

American Fire Sprinkler Association

c:     760-908-7753

p:

214-349-5965 ext124

w:

firesprinkler.org  

  
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Stronger Together – We help solve problems with you, at any point in your project timeline!

Are you a member with a technical question?  Don't forget one of the most valuable resources that AFSA provides is Technical Reviews by our Technical Services Department. It’s like having an FPE on your staff. Visit www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! (Member login required.)  

 

From: Ed Kramer <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 11:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] BFP on underground supply

 

NFPA 13 is pretty clear that some method of forward flow testing a fire sprinkler system backflow preventer shall be provided.  If the BFP is located at the system riser (very common in these parts), we provide the required means.

 

So, who is responsible for providing the means if the BFP is located in a pit on the underground fire service, and the UG fire service (along with the pit/BFP) is “by others”?  From a practical viewpoint, it’s easy enough for us to provide that at our system riser, but are we required to do so?  Or does that responsibility fall on whomever installs the BFP?  I’ve not seen this addressed anywhere in bid/contract documents.

 

Ed Kramer

Bamford Fire

 

 

 


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