Bob, You're correct, there are limited situations in our jurisdiction where a backflow vault is not provided. More common is a backflow separating public and private water, with a combination domestic/fire line serving the property.
In this case, the international plumbing code will require backflow on the riser. Just wanted verification that our current approach for projects with dedicated fire lines was appropriate. Thanks for the feedback, Mike Slaughter Risk Reduction Division Travis County Emergency Services District 2 Office: (512) 989-4531 [email protected] On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 4:25 PM Bob Caputo <[email protected]> wrote: > Backflow preventers are actually not always required. NFPA standards do > not require them – but where the water purveyor does, NFPA provides > installation requirements. When a back flow is required, the type and > location are the purview of the water district. > > > > If arranged to allow full forward flow, a hydrant or even the annual fire > pump test or standpipe flow testing could qualify as the means to perform a > forward flow test > > > > > > *Bob Caputo, CFPS* > > *President* > > *American Fire Sprinkler Association* > > c: 760-908-7753 > > p: > > 214-349-5965 ext124 > > w: > > firesprinkler.org > > <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> > <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> > <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> > > > > *Stronger Together – We help solve problems with you, at any point in your > project timeline!* > > *Are you a member with a technical question? *Don't forget one of the > most valuable resources that AFSA provides is Technical Reviews by our > Technical Services Department. It’s like having an FPE on your staff. Visit > www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! (Member > login required.) > > > > *From:* Michael Slaughter <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 4:14 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: BFP on underground supply > > > > FYI, > > > > A question from an AHJ. In many cases, we receive a dedicated underground > fire line to serve fire hydrants and the building fire sprinkler system. > (Domestic if provided through a separate line) > > > > When this occurs, the local water authorities always require a backflow > (in an underground vault) to separate the public water supply from the > private water system. > > > > With this approach, we do not require a backflow on the riser and use the > yard hydrant system for the forward flow testing of the backflow. > > > > Does anyone see an issue with this approach? If so, please advise we can > revise our procedure. > > > > Mike Slaughter > > Risk Reduction Division > > Travis County Emergency Services District 2 > > Office: (512) 989-4531 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 4:03 PM Bob Caputo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > So, why would it matter where the backflow preventer is located? NFPA is > clear in the requirement to provide a forward flow test connection. If the > backflow is in a vault or a pit, the intent is still clear. I am the > current chair of NFPA 24, and I think most members would agree this > connection is better located on the control riser – but there is no > restriction on where you place this connection. NFPA 13, chapter 6 is a > direct extract of underground installation requirements, provided so > installer/maintainers don’t even have to purchase a copy of NFPA 24. > > > > Are we a solution in search of a problem on this one? > > > > Bob > > > > > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > > *Bob Caputo, CFPS* > > *President* > > *American Fire Sprinkler Association* > > c: 760-908-7753 > > p: > > 214-349-5965 ext124 > > w: > > firesprinkler.org > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> [image: Image removed by > sender.] <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> [image: > Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> > > > > *Stronger Together – We help solve problems with you, at any point in your > project timeline!* > > *Are you a member with a technical question? *Don't forget one of the > most valuable resources that AFSA provides is Technical Reviews by our > Technical Services Department. It’s like having an FPE on your staff. Visit > www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! (Member > login required.) > > > > *From:* Ed Kramer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 11:19 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] BFP on underground supply > > > > NFPA 13 is pretty clear that some method of forward flow testing a fire > sprinkler system backflow preventer shall be provided. If the BFP is > located at the system riser (very common in these parts), we provide the > required means. > > > > So, who is responsible for providing the means if the BFP is located in a > pit on the underground fire service, and the UG fire service (along with > the pit/BFP) is “by others”? From a practical viewpoint, it’s easy enough > for us to provide that at our system riser, but are we required to do so? > Or does that responsibility fall on whomever installs the BFP? I’ve not > seen this addressed anywhere in bid/contract documents. > > > > Ed Kramer > > Bamford Fire > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] >
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