Dear Rolf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:06 PM
Subject: [Stoves] condensing...
yes, right, the % you gain from condensing dwindles with inlet pressure,
which in "simple" systems tends to be low, though.
But there is the very apreciated side effect of condensing to obtain
clean, demineralized feeding water.
In many areas, water is limy (carbonates) or contains malot of iron or
other minerals.
That's why condensing the exhaust makes sense beyond energy gaines.
# That would be a bad way to go. Feeding highly mineralized water to the
boiler and evaporating off the steam would result in the minerals being
deposited inside the boiler. That can lead to boiler damage and/or
explosions.. In such an area where water is heavily mineralized, a "Boiler
feedwater Treatment Plant" would be required.
Best wishes,
Kevin
Rolf
On Wed, 15 May 2013 15:16:22 -0300
"Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Bryce
Thanks for the feedback.
"Condensing" is simple in concept. Simply pass the steam exhausted from
the engine through a "condenser." :-) A "Condenser" is a heat exchanger
that is cooled with air or water, and it creates a vacuum, enabling the
piston to extract more work from the steam.
For example, if the temperature of the water leaving the condenser was
about 140 F, the vacuum in the condenser would be about -12 psig, and
effectively, 50 psig steam would be as 'powerful" as 62.3 psig steam. A
problem with the Green steam engine could be that when the steam was
expanded enough to get the vacuum, there could be leakage of air in past
the O-rings, and a de-aerator would then be required to remove the air.
Additionally, you also need a boiler water feed pump, operating under
vacuum, to recover the water from vacuum of the condenser, and lift it up
to boiler pressure of 50 psig.
They say, as you quote below:
" There are numerous reasons that this design is considerably more
efficient than standard historical steam engines."
There are also numerous reasons why condensing systems are not used on
small systems, two reasons of which are cost and complexity.
Best wishes,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryce L Nordgren
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Green Steam Engine
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Bryce
I couldn't find his claim for 24% efficiency, but it seems to be very
high. I calculate that the useable energy in the steam is less than 3%.
Yeah, for a website with only three pages, it sure needs work. The
claim is on the "Licensing" page. I wasn't trying to review his claims,
because that's a bit out of my niche. I just wanted to see where the
provided numbers took us.
The 24% figure was for recondensing the steam around the boiler. I
can't fathom how that works since the exhaust steam is at 1 atm. How
would the boiler be cold enough to recondense 1 atm steam to liquid if it
has to be hot enough to make steam at 4-9 atm?
Here's the snippet:
When the steam is simply exhausted to atmosphere while running a
generator, for example, efficiency is relatively low; in the area of 15%.
When the exhaust is condensed and recycled back to the boiler, the
efficiency is around 24% to 30%. When the exhaust is condensed through a
heat exchanger whereby the condensation process is used fully by heating
water, space and distilling water, for example, the efficiency can be in
the 70% range.
In addition to the potential for efficient energy use and
production, the designs' simplicity, economy and weight more than
justifies its utilization. It is important to note that utilizing free or
cheap fuel makes efficiency less important. There are numerous reasons
that this design is considerably more efficient than standard historical
steam engines.
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Energies Naturals C.B. <[email protected]>
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