Rebecca has primarily worked with fired clay rocket stoves. We were discussing the use of various parts of the cocnut as alternative fuels In the Philipines they have a fairly well developen market for various cocnut products as fuel In particulat they have wide spread fired clay charcoal burners. She had commented on the use of primative pit kilns and their pollution/ I pointed her toward Amy Smiths work hopefully to reduce some polluion
Moving into retorts or TLUD unit may be in the future but I beleive for now she is going to be expanding her rocket stove capabilities. I am glad to see other picking up on Rebacca's travails I am not much into charcoal until I can find a effective use for its heat and smoke, maybe a copra dryer. . Michael Marshall Islands --- Original Message ----- From: Otto Formo To: Stoves Bioenergylist Cc: Jon Anderson Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves Rebecca, Haveing tested briquettes made out of rice husks and sawdust in a gasifier unit (Natural Draft), we experienced the same challenge to ignite and creating the pyrolytic front. I would suggest you create an upper layer of woodchips, on top of your coconutshells, to create that pyrolytic front more easily and ignite the chips, using woodshaveings or even gras, as a starter. REMEMBER: Do not pour liquid materials, like kerosine , directly into the fueling Chamber! This will distrub the pyrolytic process and reduce the outcome of your charcoal or biochar production. Good Luck. Thanks Otto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:03:35 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves Rebecca, To make your oling (coconut shell charcoal), the TLUD technology is highly appropriate. The density of the shell pieces makes them slightly difficult to initially light (the same as with densified wood pellets). But just make a slightly larger and longer burning "starter fire" to get the initial layer of pyrolyzing biomass that becomes the pyrolytic front that migrates slowly down through the column of shell pieces. How familiar are you with the TLUD technology? Paul Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.comOn 6/15/2013 12:48 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote: Michael, I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one who knows the coconut so well!! So I presume you know very well the native “tuba” drink from the flower shoot? Do take a look at my photo album below : https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444 – you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung together; your preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from coconut shells (inside sacks and plastic bags). The charcoal makers are my biggest competitors for the bucong I need to fire my eco-kalans. Take a close look at photo #37 -the small pottery to the right which looks like a vase uses “oling” or coconut shell charcoal; to the left you will find the big traditional kalans which can use firewood, “palwa” or “bucong”. The “bucong” is the fuel of the poorest and the “bingka” or rice cake bakers; the “palwa” is bought by the not so poor; firewood by the middleclass; and the “oling “ is bought by the many food vendors (like “tocinos” – similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed meat buns, boiling water for disinfecting spoons & forks....) and households for broiling fish and meats (sinugba). Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a hole in the ground –a smoky process with a lot of energy going to waste. Do you know a better way?? Rebecca From: mtrevor Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Subject: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves Dear Rebecca As an ex copra maker I have met the coconut and know it well. I have made copra by the tons. I know coconut husk and flower shoot and fronds and shell Here the husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge sized pieces. After the nuts are husked women haul them in from the husking areas and sun dry them in the yards. It is exhausting back breaking work Husk is a pretty good mosquito chaser and its low burn temperature make it very good for cooking rice. BUT THE SMOKE!!!! I would like to see a retort system running heat to a copra drier to produce better copra with out bugs and mold with coconut shell charcoal for sale as a by product. In more recent years the has been some switch to your "bucong" of course this mean no more shell left over. Splitting husk with shell in to multiple little wedges would be considered a lot of additional work. Coconut husk it tough stuff. I find slicing off the leaflets in the field and using the coconut frond mid rib chopped into segments and split length wise easier. The resulting stick like pieces feed into a rocket stove easier. The flower spaths are superb rocket stove fuel. Michael Marshall Islands ----- Original Message ----- From: Rebecca A. Vermeer To: ; Michael N. Trevor Cc: Rebecca A. Vermeer ; Jon Anderson Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30 AM Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life Hello Michael, Thank you for your suggestions and question. My comments are as follows: 1. I have considered experimenting with high silicate ash from the foot of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of Negros Oriental. The ash is free and my partners with the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in Negros Or. and the Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon would bring the ash to Dumaguete City. If this does not work, I’ll follow up on the TLUD route. 2. Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho volunteers) have shown me their work with insulating bricks to form the combustion chamber in Timor Leste. The insulating bricks are weak, fragile bricks which require a strong, heavy duty shell exterior (e.g. cement)to protect the combustion chamber and to support big cooking pots. I still think that tiny insulating “clay marbles” between the heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and combustion chamber is the most practical way to pursue. I am hopeful Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to produce these insulating clay marbles or pebbles cheaply. 3. For those who have not seen a coconut husk – it is a by-product of COPRA (mature coconut meat) production. Every 3 months, the coconuts are harvested, cut into 2 halves, and meat is extracted and dried to make copra. The husk and inside shell is dried in roof-covered sheds or storage buildings to make “bucong” – the fuel we use to fire the eco-kalans to 900 degrees Celsius. To use the “bucong” or coconut husk with shell for fuel in a rocket stove, it is requires chopping the husk with a machete into narrow wedges (like a cantaloupe) and a combustion chamber opening as wide and as high (5.5”x5.5”) as that of the eco-kalan. Rebecca Vermeer Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines British Columbia, Canada From: mtrevor Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:44 AM To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life Rebecca Why not gassify rice hulls in a TLUD and then use the low cristobalite "tough" high silicate ash to mix your insulation. Perhaps take a lead fom Aprovecho's play book and fire your liner in multiple wedge shaped pieces negating the need to break things up. How do to "prepare" your coconut husks for use in a rocket stove? Michael N Trevor Marshall Islands From: Rebecca A. Vermeer To: Paul Olivier Cc: Jon Anderson ; [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life Paul, I currently use wood ash as insulating material between the kalan and combustion chamber of the eco-kalan (a rocket stove using wood, charcoal, coconut husk, shell, fronds and other parts of the coconut tree). The eco-kalan uses 75-85% less firewood and therefore a lot less ash is produced compared to traditional kalans and other traditional cookstoves in Negros Oriental, Philippines. A shortage in supply of ash is one fact or which affects sales of eco-kalan. I have considered making an insulating material using a 50-50 mix by volume of rice hull & clay in the form of pellets or bricks which would be broken to pieces after firing. I would fire the pellets or the bricks along with the eco-kalans up to 900 degrees Celsius. Will there be significant formation of cristobalite under these conditions? Would handling the fired pellets or the breaking of the bricks be a health hazard? Thanks, Rebecca Vermeer From: Paul Olivier Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:07 AM To: Rebecca A. Vermeer Cc: Jon Anderson ; [email protected] ; larry winiarski Subject: Re: Fw: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life Rebecca, If we directly burn river hulls, there should be a lot of cristobalite formed. If we gasify, this problem should be minimized, provided channeling does not occur. Also there might be cristobalite in the particulate matter in the combustion gases. With rice hull pellets in a TLUD we have a lot less channeling, and a lot less particulate matter. Therefore the rice hull pellet becomes an attractive fuel for these and many other reasons. Thanks. Paul Olivier On Jun 14, 2013 1:44 PM, "Rebecca A. Vermeer" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Paul, Larry just told me that the silica content of rice hull ash is over 90%. At the ETHOS 2013 Conference, I saw a TURBO stove developed in the Philippines which used rice hull for fuel. Given your comment below regarding cristobalite “which is a nasty carcinogen” and severely hazardous to human health (see link below), would you recommend the use of rice hull as a household fuel for cookstoves? Rebecca Vermeer CRISTOBALITE LINK: http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf From: Paul Olivier Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:01 AM To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life Paal, One thing I look for on my burner is that all burner holes support a flame throughout the process. If channeling occurs during the process or if char is being burned as the process comes to a close, then one can see burner holes that do not support a flame. This means that CO2 is being discharged from the burner holes, and of course CO2 does not burn. When CO2 is formed, this represents a big inefficiency, since combustion takes place far below the pot. When this happens the sides of the reactor can easily turn red hot and melt. I do not know how it is possible to spot the presence of CO2 if the top of the reactor stays open and does not have a lid with burner holes. If one turns up the fan a bit too high resulting in channeling, it can happen that only a few holes (among a total of 80 in my case) do not support a flame. If I turn the fan down a bit and shake the reactor, this problem is immediately corrected. Also the effect of the presence of CO2 can be spotted by the cook in another way. The distribution of heat to the pan is not even. Also many of the positive characteristics of biochar are lost when biochar is combusted and is reduced to ash. The combustion of biomass and biochar takes place when channeling occurs, and the combustion of biochar takes place if the fan is not turned off at the end of the process. Rice hull ash and rice hill biochar are not at all the same thing when it comes to growing plants. Also rice hull ash can easily contain cristobalite, which is a nasty carcinogen. Under ordinary conditions, no farmer should be handling this stuff. Thanks. Paul On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Paal Wendelbo <[email protected]> wrote: Ron By end of flame the color of the char is red to yellow, that indicate a temperature of 700 to 800 ˚C and when there is no smoke, complete combustion has taken place. Is that not good for biochar? Regards Paal W _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -- Paul A. 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