Mark, Thanks so much for your contribution here. We are in full agreement on this point.
Paul Olivier On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy Design Ltd <[email protected]> wrote: > I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is necessary > that an error be corrected before this thread is put to sleep. > > It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the oceans has > increased. > > It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has decreased by > about 0.1. Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this actually means a 30% > increase in the hydrogen ion activity. In other words, the acidity has > increased by 30%. This is basic chemistry, not "nonsense". (The fact that > carbon dioxide, when dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic > chemistry.) > > But yes the oceans are alkaline. The shift in pH is from about 8.2 to > about 8.1. (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are on the pH > scale.) People who have dedicated their lives to studying oceanic > ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly small drop in pH is > impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying microorganisms and other > highly-calcium-dependent species - and therefore also on the whole > ecosystems which depend on them for food or shelter. (And remember, humans > are at the top of the food chain in many of those ecosystems.) That is why > this is a serious matter. > > mark > > > > > On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote: > > Paul O**** > > ** ** > > The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation about > climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort of nonsense > cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves discussion list.**** > > ** ** > > When someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans have increased in acidity > by one third’ and implying it is because of man-made CO2 emissions from > fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly that o nonsense. The oceans > are alkaline, not acidic and cannot ‘increase in acidity by one third’ – > whatever that means. **** > > ** ** > > I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here.**** > > ** ** > > Please accept the moderator’s view.**** > > Thanks**** > > Crispin **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Stoves > [mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]>] > *On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier > *Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > *Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification**** > > ** ** > > In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman concerning > ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list and said:**** > > > **** > > *That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have > seem. What rubbish. ***** > > * The oceans are not acidic.***** > > *CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a fragile > composition with a short lifespan.***** > > *If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would become > slightly less alkaline.***** > > *It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts about > oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His writings are > not helping the reputation of science. His view are not informing the > discussion. His conclusions are worthy of ridicule.***** > > *Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. When > the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population shifts. It has > shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has nothing to do with human > fuel use.***** > > I replied to his email as follows:**** > > *Please do not label everything that you disagree with as rubbish, > nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to conduct a debate when you > use such language. > > I would like to draw your attention to the following: > http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/ > > http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification***** > > *http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification > http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F***** > > *I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go about > designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people in developing > countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we want to design stoves > that at the same time address important issues such as climate change, > global warming and ocean acidification? > * > Thanks.**** > > Paul**** > > --- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ **** > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web > pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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