On ocean acidification from National Geographic: http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/critical-issues-ocean-acidification/ On ocean acidification from Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ocean-acidification-hurts-squid-too&page=2 http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ocean-acidification-weakens-mussels-grip http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=us-effort-on-ocean-acidification-needs-focus-on-human-impacts
I guess I could go on and on. Paul Olivier On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <[email protected]>wrote: > Mark, > > on a logarithmic scale how many times can you make a 30% change? > > i.e., is there only hydrogen ion activity over <0.4points of the pH scale > or are you saying something different? > > regards, > Ronald von pHneutralOberbayern > > > > On 05.07.2013 07:41, Paul Olivier wrote: > > Mark, > > Thanks so much for your contribution here. > We are in full agreement on this point. > > Paul Olivier > > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy > Design Ltd <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is necessary >> that an error be corrected before this thread is put to sleep. >> >> It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the oceans has >> increased. >> >> It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has decreased by >> about 0.1. Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this actually means a 30% >> increase in the hydrogen ion activity. In other words, the acidity has >> increased by 30%. This is basic chemistry, not "nonsense". (The fact that >> carbon dioxide, when dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic >> chemistry.) >> >> But yes the oceans are alkaline. The shift in pH is from about 8.2 to >> about 8.1. (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are on the pH >> scale.) People who have dedicated their lives to studying oceanic >> ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly small drop in pH is >> impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying microorganisms and other >> highly-calcium-dependent species - and therefore also on the whole >> ecosystems which depend on them for food or shelter. (And remember, humans >> are at the top of the food chain in many of those ecosystems.) That is why >> this is a serious matter. >> >> mark >> >> >> >> >> On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote: >> >> Paul O >> >> >> >> The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation about >> climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort of nonsense >> cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves discussion list. >> >> >> >> When someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans have increased in acidity >> by one third’ and implying it is because of man-made CO2 emissions from >> fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly that o nonsense. The oceans >> are alkaline, not acidic and cannot ‘increase in acidity by one third’ – >> whatever that means. >> >> >> >> I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here. >> >> >> >> Please accept the moderator’s view. >> >> Thanks >> >> Crispin >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Stoves >> [mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]>] >> *On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM >> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves >> *Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification >> >> >> >> In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman concerning >> ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list and said: >> >> >> *That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have >> seem. What rubbish. * >> >> * The oceans are not acidic.* >> >> *CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a fragile >> composition with a short lifespan.* >> >> *If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would become >> slightly less alkaline.* >> >> *It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts about >> oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His writings are >> not helping the reputation of science. His view are not informing the >> discussion. His conclusions are worthy of ridicule.* >> >> *Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. When >> the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population shifts. It has >> shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has nothing to do with human >> fuel use.* >> >> I replied to his email as follows: >> >> *Please do not label everything that you disagree with as rubbish, >> nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to conduct a debate when you >> use such language. >> >> I would like to draw your attention to the following: >> http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/ >> >> http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification* >> >> *http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification >> http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F* >> >> *I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go about >> designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people in developing >> countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we want to design stoves >> that at the same time address important issues such as climate change, >> global warming and ocean acidification? >> * >> Thanks. >> >> Paul >> >> --- >> Paul A. Olivier PhD >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong >> Dalat >> Vietnam >> >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) >> Skype address: Xpolivier >> http://www.esrla.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web >> pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web >> site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web > pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5964 - Release Date: 07/04/13 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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