Mark,
on a logarithmic scale how many times can you make a 30% change?
i.e., is there only hydrogen ion activity over <0.4points of the pH
scale or are you saying something different?
regards,
Ronald von pHneutralOberbayern
On 05.07.2013 07:41, Paul Olivier wrote:
Mark,
Thanks so much for your contribution here.
We are in full agreement on this point.
Paul Olivier
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy
Design Ltd <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is
necessary that an error be corrected before this thread is put to
sleep.
It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the
oceans has increased.
It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has
decreased by about 0.1. Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this
actually means a 30% increase in the hydrogen ion activity. In
other words, the acidity has increased by 30%. This is basic
chemistry, not "nonsense". (The fact that carbon dioxide, when
dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic chemistry.)
But yes the oceans are alkaline. The shift in pH is from about
8.2 to about 8.1. (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are
on the pH scale.) People who have dedicated their lives to
studying oceanic ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly
small drop in pH is impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying
microorganisms and other highly-calcium-dependent species - and
therefore also on the whole ecosystems which depend on them for
food or shelter. (And remember, humans are at the top of the food
chain in many of those ecosystems.) That is why this is a serious
matter.
mark
On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
Paul O
The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation
about climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort
of nonsense cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves
discussion list.
When someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans have increased in
acidity by one third’ and implying it is because of man-made CO2
emissions from fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly
that o nonsense. The oceans are alkaline, not acidic and cannot
‘increase in acidity by one third’ – whatever that means.
I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here.
Please accept the moderator’s view.
Thanks
Crispin
*From:*Stoves [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier
*Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM
*To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
*Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification
In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman
concerning ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list
and said:
/That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I
have seem. What rubbish. /
/ The oceans are not acidic./
/CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a
fragile composition with a short lifespan./
/If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would
become slightly less alkaline./
/It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts
about oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His
writings are not helping the reputation of science. His view are
not informing the discussion. His conclusions are worthy of
ridicule./
/Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply.
When the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population
shifts. It has shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has
nothing to do with human fuel use./
I replied to his email as follows:
/Please do not label everything that you disagree with as
rubbish, nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to
conduct a debate when you use such language.
I would like to draw your attention to the following:
http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/
http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification/
/http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F/
/I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go
about designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people
in developing countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we
want to design stoves that at the same time address important
issues such as climate change, global warming and ocean
acidification?
/
Thanks.
Paul
---
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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