Hallo Ron, does your GEK work yet?
happy summer Rolf von Sommerinselimmittelmeer On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 08:37:12 +0200 Ronald Hongsermeier <[email protected]> wrote: > Mark, > > on a logarithmic scale how many times can you make a 30% change? > > i.e., is there only hydrogen ion activity over <0.4points of the pH > scale or are you saying something different? > > regards, > Ronald von pHneutralOberbayern > > > On 05.07.2013 07:41, Paul Olivier wrote: > > Mark, > > > > Thanks so much for your contribution here. > > We are in full agreement on this point. > > > > Paul Olivier > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy > > Design Ltd <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is > > necessary that an error be corrected before this thread is put to > > sleep. > > > > It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the > > oceans has increased. > > > > It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has > > decreased by about 0.1. Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this > > actually means a 30% increase in the hydrogen ion activity. In > > other words, the acidity has increased by 30%. This is basic > > chemistry, not "nonsense". (The fact that carbon dioxide, when > > dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic chemistry.) > > > > But yes the oceans are alkaline. The shift in pH is from about > > 8.2 to about 8.1. (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are > > on the pH scale.) People who have dedicated their lives to > > studying oceanic ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly > > small drop in pH is impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying > > microorganisms and other highly-calcium-dependent species - and > > therefore also on the whole ecosystems which depend on them for > > food or shelter. (And remember, humans are at the top of the food > > chain in many of those ecosystems.) That is why this is a serious > > matter. > > > > mark > > > > > > > > > > On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote: > >> > >> Paul O > >> > >> The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation > >> about climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort > >> of nonsense cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves > >> discussion list. > >> > >> When someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans have increased in > >> acidity by one third’ and implying it is because of man-made CO2 > >> emissions from fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly > >> that o nonsense. The oceans are alkaline, not acidic and cannot > >> ‘increase in acidity by one third’ – whatever that means. > >> > >> I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here. > >> > >> Please accept the moderator’s view. > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Crispin > >> > >> *From:*Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] > >> *On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier > >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM > >> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > >> *Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification > >> > >> In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman > >> concerning ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list > >> and said: > >> > >> > >> /That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I > >> have seem. What rubbish. / > >> > >> / The oceans are not acidic./ > >> > >> /CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a > >> fragile composition with a short lifespan./ > >> > >> /If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would > >> become slightly less alkaline./ > >> > >> /It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts > >> about oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His > >> writings are not helping the reputation of science. His view are > >> not informing the discussion. His conclusions are worthy of > >> ridicule./ > >> > >> /Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. > >> When the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population > >> shifts. It has shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has > >> nothing to do with human fuel use./ > >> > >> I replied to his email as follows: > >> > >> /Please do not label everything that you disagree with as > >> rubbish, nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to > >> conduct a debate when you use such language. > >> > >> I would like to draw your attention to the following: > >> http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/ > >> > >> http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification/ > >> > >> /http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification > >> http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F/ > >> > >> /I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go > >> about designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people > >> in developing countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we > >> want to design stoves that at the same time address important > >> issues such as climate change, global warming and ocean > >> acidification? > >> / > >> Thanks. > >> > >> Paul > >> > >> --- > >> Paul A. Olivier PhD > >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > >> Dalat > >> Vietnam > >> > >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > >> Skype address: Xpolivier > >> http://www.esrla.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stoves mailing list > >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >> [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >> > >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >> > >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > >> site: > >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > > site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul A. Olivier PhD > > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > > Dalat > > Vietnam > > > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > > Skype address: Xpolivier > > http://www.esrla.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > > Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5964 - Release Date: 07/04/13 > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
