Dear all,
Although addressed to me, the message from Paal Wendelbo merits comments
from many.
And while in Africa now, my time is very limited for comments. But I
hope we have some consensus or synthesis by the time some of us are at
ETHOS and can discuss this face to face.
I do like Crispin's comments about some middle-ground.
To Paal, perhaps this is a good time for you to prepare some info about
your Uganda project in the 1990s. NOT about the Peko Pe stove, but
about the project/ processes / methods you used to get 5000 stoves made.
Aspects of interest include:
1. how you organized or promoted to the tinsmiths to make the PP stove.
2. What production problems did you need to confront? and how you
solved those problems? (not about stove design).
3. Any issues of materials supply?
4. Were the stove makers cooperative or competitive?
And many more insights. Loose and general thoughts are fine. Please
send to all, and I and others might be assisting when we see your
content better.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: [email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 1/9/2014 2:59 AM, Paal Wendelbo wrote:
Dear Paul A
A *decentralized stove project* has a motto:
1.Environment and health improvement
2.Save the forest
3.Creating jobs.
And start like this at a certain location:
1.Registration of local resources of actual types of fuel and manpower.
2.Public discussion by involved parties. Why changes is needed.
Winners and losers?
3.Demonstration of different stoves and different types of fuel.
4.Type of fuel to be used
5.Type of stoves to be used
6.Production of fuel and production of stoves. What can be produced
locally?
7.Prices of fuel and prices of stoves. Finance and sales.
A *centralized stove project* has a motto:
1.Profit for producers of fuel and stoves.
2.Environment and health improvement if possible.
3.Marketing of nice products
4.Subsidizing and loan.
*From:* Paul Anderson <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 08, 2014 10:32 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ;
Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<mailto:[email protected]> ; ted redelmeier
<mailto:[email protected]> ; David McInturff - Seachar
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion aboutdecentalized
stove efforts
Ranyee,
Thanks for that very open and affirmative reply. The "and" makes a
great difference.
Could you or others at GACC give some outline of what might be
"different types of tailored support" that could reach those who are
active in DEcentalized approaches to production.
Note from me: It is possible that funding for decentralized
approaches might favor those decentralized approaches that can somehow
work together or be mutually beneficial.
I would like to suggest that some funding might be made available that
collectively assists cooperating (but not identical) decentralized
efforts to produce (and disseminate) the_micro-gasifier stoves _that
can perform at acceptable levels on the several criteria for stove
approvals (the Tier system). Those interested in this (including
discussing what constitutes sufficiently "decentralized" efforts)
should gather at some session.
Or ALSO we organize ourselves to meet at some hours to discuss
this. SO, I propose that those interested could gather RATHER
INFORMALLY (but with purpose) promptly after the Friday evening
social/informational gathering. Usually ends about 9 or 9:30 PM so we
could get a little start on this topic.
I will be there for that initial meeting about support for
decentralized production of TLUD or other micro-gasifier stoves.
Here on the Listservs we can discuss this. Such as stoves that have
sophisticated parts (like forced air) are not included in the
"decentralized" group. (this can be discussed) .
Anyone interested in joining me, please make yourself known.
Because Paal Wendelbo has already told us that he will not be
attending ETHOS, he is encouraged to participate via email, and have
his stove efforts included in the candidates and examples of
decentralized cookstove efforts. Others in that situation? Or who
want to be producing some design in a decentralized manner?
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:[email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:www.drtlud.com
On 1/8/2014 8:22 AM, Ranyee Chiang wrote:
Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS. A good way to frame this discussion may be to
think about ways that the different types of efforts can be integrated together, or how they can
learn from each other. Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of efforts
are important and require different types of tailored support. It would be useful to hear some
discussion about the specifics of the tailored support that is needed in each case. And overall, I
think that a discussion focused "and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
Cheers,
Ranyee
________________________________________
From:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] on
behalf of Paul Andersonmailto:[email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
Ben,
Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was
it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for further
clarification?
In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far
fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that
favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because that is
not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized
efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:[email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:www.drtlud.com
On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
mass production and distribution by development industry players.
B
On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Andersonmailto:[email protected] wrote:
Dear Paal, and all,
As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production of stoves (and
fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent world is for
centralized industrial production. That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of
the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to
resolve major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would
not be in control of the situation.)
It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major
impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.
I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:[email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:www.drtlud.com
On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM,[email protected] wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
[email protected] wrote:
Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but after
30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I have
come to this conclusion.
There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high demands
of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for simple clean
burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture energy
production together collection of waste biomass of different types will give a
lot of new needed jobs.
· Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
· Use of local resources
· Biochar production by cooking.
That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low income
groups all around the worl
Best regards Paal [email protected]
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