Dear Guy,

No, my last posting wasn't a joke.  I've been practicing restraining myself
after the onslaught of criticism over the last few days, so I'm going to
ignore the tone of your previous contribution and try to be constructive.
(At least Andy called me "Mr.".)

So........political vs. commercial speech is the issue?

Take a look at the http://grassrootscampaigns.com  (or .org) web site.  Do
you see any discussion of issues?  No.  Do you see any discussion or names
of political candidates? (other than Pres. Bush?)  No.  What you DO find is
a kind of mission statement: "By talking with one person at a time about the
Bush Administration's record, we aim to identify 30,000 new Democratic
donors every month until Election Day and raise millions of dollars for the
coordinated campaign to win back the White House and Congress."  The other
thing you'll find on that web site is a "Jobs" page.  And there's not much
else there!!

For more on this FOR-PROFIT (according to the following article)
corporation, please see an article published in "Seven Days" a Vermont
Alternative Weekly newspaper http://www.sevendaysvt.com   The article was
published less than a month ago, but is no longer available on that web
site..  I found it on a blog site using Google.  Here's a link to a copy of
the article http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/6/17/11331/2673 entitled
"McCanvassing? The DNC's pre-packaged "grassroots" campaign"  The CEO is a
guy named Doug Phelps who is the founder of the "Fund for Public Interest
Research, a nonprofit organization that has run canvasses for the Sierra
Club, Greenpeace and the Human Rights Campaign, among others".  (What a
surprise, uh?)

So, my point is (and has been) that the Farmer's Market solicitors are
working for a commercial firm that has been engaged by the DNC to collect
names and money.  That's all Grassroots Campaigns, Inc. does and, to me, it
sounds a helluva lot more commercial than political.   A lot closer to
selling hot dogs than engaging in a discussion of issues and beliefs.

Me?  I'd rather save my First Amendment free speech fight for people and
groups actually competing in the marketplace of political ideas rather than
a company that gets paid for collecting names and raising money.

Happy to be able add a little humor to Guy's day,



Paul Gleeson
St Paul


It's easy to grin
When your ship comes in
And you've got the stock market beat.
But the man worthwhile,
Is the man who can smile,
When his shorts are too tight in the seat
"Caddy Shack" 1980





-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Guy Western
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 5:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [StPaul] Farmers Market & free speech


My sincere apologies if this was offensive to anyone, but I was quite
certain that the poster who made the comparison between hot dogs and
protected speech in the context of a discussion of constitutional rights
was actually making a joke.  In fact, I'm still quite sure that this was
just a joke that the List Manager may have missed reading hastily in his
solemn pursuit of duty.  I can't imagine anyone was really offended.

I know the Rehnquist court has been assiduous in its application of the
"equal protections" clause, but did anyone seriously think any of us were
urging that the First Amendment meant the Farmers' Market had to admit
every popcorn wagon and hot dog vendor who could push a cart?  I don't
think so.

Guy Western
still laughing on the West Side

> [Original Message]
> From: List Manager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: St. Paul Issues Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 7/9/04 2:38:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [StPaul] Farmers Market & free speech
>
> Comments From The List Manager:
> -------------------------------
>
> >Isn't that what you're asking? Because comparing hot dogs and viewpoints
is
> >only relevant insofar as it is humorous.
>
> I agree that pushing political ideas and hot dogs are different
> issues and not so easily compared. But, as much as I disagree with
> the comparison, I don't find it either outlandish nor humorous.
>
> I think that the reality is, that citizens in our society view the
> right to Free Speech in very different ways. There is a whole
> spectrum of ideas about how just  much latitude that we should have
> in this regard and how much and how often, that government can put
> restrictions on our right to free speech.
>
> In my opinion, a healthy discussion about free speech is one in which
> everyone can present their point of view on the issue without having
> it dismissed or scoffed at.
>
> I don't see anything irrational about citizens that are fed up with
> politics asking that politics be kept out of the farmers market. I
> also understand the potential dangers that come with this position.
> Can we please, keep this discussion open to differing opinions and
> ways of thinking?
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> --
> Tim Erickson
> List Manager
> St. Paul Issues Forum
> http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/
> Hamline Midway Resident
> 651-643-0722
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
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