Freddy: First of all, *thank you* for clarifying what I meant from my terse
comments. Sometimes to get a point across, I have to lay it out there
cut-and-dry. Yes, everything said rings true with my intentions. Hence you
may speak for me anytime Freddy.
Ben: Very glad to get your input and will address it as clearly and
respectfully as I can:
The "evasive"-ness of my opening email ties back to "to the rest of us you just
sort of came out of nowhere to claim a leadership role". With that in mind:
- "you meant you are planning to *use* Stripes in a project and you can't
disclose the nature of that project" Precisely. Basically was some idle
chit-chat to go along with 'Uh, yeah, I'd like to...'
- "Maybe when you didn't speak of your qualifications, it was out of humility"
Bingo. That along with the breadth and depth of experiences I've had in my
career, I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. After being around Java and
web applications for 13, going on 14, years now there's a lot I've seen and
done. Anyone else on here remember the days before JSPs when you had to put
HTML into the Servlet? Good times!
- "maybe that was an attempt to keep from sinking further into the quicksand"
Right again. When I perform a *leadership action* by making a stand on
something I believe in and it somehow turns into me seeking an autocratic
dictatorship, I'm out. Stripes has no king, Stripes needs no king. Stripes
does need a *steward* to evolve any further than where it stands today.
- "I like that you got a +1 from Melinda, who has been active on the mailing
list for years." and "you don't seem to have been very active on the mailing
list or IRC" are related so I will answer both right now. When I became
Melinda's lead, she had very little experience developing with Java let alone
Enterprise Java Web applications. As an example of my leadership style, when
Melinda would first come to me with Stripes questions, I would encourage her to
be the one to reach out to the Stripes community and find the answer.
Delegating that responsibility was one of the ways to let her grow personally
and professionally.
As far as my Stripes community activity goes, yes it has been more behind the
scenes. In 2006, Stripes easily won the web framework architectural review I
conducted over Struts, JSF, Spring MVC, Tapestry, etc. I wrote a proposal for
the JavaOne Call For Papers a few years ago with the goal being to present a
Technical Session on the Stripes Framework at JavaOne. I was going to attend
anyway, might as well spread the word on Stripes while I was there. The
proposal was not accepted. Within four months of being at my current job, I
*proactively* wrote up an Application Architecture Proposal document almost
entirely centered around using Stripes instead of Struts 1.2.x which is what
they have been using since 2002. That has started high-level discussions about
rearchitecting the application but I am quite concerned about Spring MVC
winning the web framework battle over Stripes because nobody I work with has
ever heard of Stripes.
- "What people are asking of you is just a little sales pitch. We want to know
what you think the project needs and what you plan to do to provide that."
This is million dollar question. I don't have a million dollar answer, but
I'll give it a go:
At this moment, I am a *former* Stripes user. Having such a positive
experience as a Stripes user in the past, I would like nothing more than to be
a happy Stripes user *in the future*. Based on that premise, there are a few
reasons why I stepped up to the plate:
1. The Stripes Elders are happy with the way Stripes is today, yet recently
several users have been on the mailing list giving the outside community point
of view. From the outside looking in, Stripes looks outdated, falling behind
the times, and for a lack of a better word 'fossilizing'.
2. As you said Ben, you no longer have the time or energy to provide proper
leadership on the project. We all see that and a couple new faces have spoken
up, taken some action, and tried to fill that leadership void. The effort is
commended, however taking the leadership role and dividing it up piecemeal just
won't work. Who is the Stripes community supposed to go to when they have an
issue, an idea or suggestion, or even want to contribute? And who is
responsible for taking all of that community input and energy and make
something happen? Right now I can't tell you who because I have no idea.
3. By 'throwing my hat into the ring' I just wanted to start a discussion on
the future leadership of Stripes, not a Civil War or Revolution. I was hoping,
Ben, you would come back and say 'Nah, man. I still got this'. With that not
being the case, I am *still* hoping someone who meets the qualifications and
follows Brandon's advice steps up. It is safe to say that I would be the
*last* resort, and I sense many would prefer there be no Project Lead at all
before giving it to some guy coming out of nowhere (which I completely
understand).
4. Melinda was too kind when she mentioned I was a 'Stripes expert'. I am far
from it. I installed Stripes when it was version 1.4.2 and have basically
leveraged the magical ActionBean, some @CustomValidation methods, and a couple
basic extensions. That's it. As I have been 'watching from the sidelines', I
know there are far more knowledgable people in the community than I. Not just
on Stripes, but on a lot of other Java EE-related topics as well. I wouldn't
even consider attempting to provide leadership to a project I don't own (i.e.
Stripes) if I wasn't going to be working with highly talented people who knew
more than I did.
What does Stripes need from a leader? Evan, Remi, and Freddy all have
mentioned specific roles and responsibilities that need to be addressed. Who
is going to perform all those tasks? I still agree with Brandon, someone who
has been on the *inside* rather than the *outside* should step up. As for my
part, because I am coming at this from a user point of view (plus my experience
working as a consultant for a Professional Services group):
- Serve the needs of the client first (in this case current and future Stripes
users)
- However, the client is not always right and their expectations need to be
managed accordingly
- For those of you familiar with the Time-Cost-Quality triangle
(http://bit.ly/aOklOy), the old saying goes there are three choices and you can
only pick two. Open source maximizes cost (as in zero) so it comes down to
Time or Quality. I am much in the 'get it done right' over the 'get it done
right now' camp so for me Quality trumps Time. I perceive the Stripes
community holds that same philosophy.
- Initially I would do a lot of listening in order to learn how to provide the
best possible service to the community. Over time, though, I would gain an
understanding of the 'big picture' along with a deeper knowledge of Stripes and
govern accordingly. This sometimes means making decisions that are loved by
some, loathed by others, and put some on the fence. That's just part of being
a leader, making decisions that are not 'universally accepted' or have 'gained
consensus'. A leader cannot make everybody happy all the time.
- At the same time, if someone doesn't understand why I made a certain decision
and asks about it, I will always be more than happy to explain what factors
went into making the decision.
- Decisions are based upon input, and sometimes decisions are made with
incomplete, incorrect, or out-of-date information. If I ever make a decision
and you feel it was the wrong one, step up and voice your concern. We can
discuss it and if I'm in the wrong I will be the first to admit it and adjust
accordingly.
Anyway, for someone who is not a natural salesman or politician, that's about
the best I can do at this juncture.
Ed
Edward Smith
Senior Software Developer
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From: Ben Gunter [mailto:gunter...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:07 AM
To: Stripes Users List
Subject: Re: [Stripes-users] IMPORTANT:: Developing stripes (Future... Part
DEUX)
Ed, it seems you have put a some people off and you have the support of some
others. I'm on the fence at the moment. My main concern is that a few of the
things you've said seem a little bit evasive. You declined to summarize your
qualifications as project lead. You mentioned some plans you have for Stripes
but again declined to disclose those. That seems especially odd since any
contributions you make will be public anyway. And then when asked to elaborate
on how you might manage the project you again declined, citing the probability
that further comment from you would create confusion.
Now, maybe I've misunderstood. Maybe when you said you had your own plans for
Stripes, you meant you are planning to *use* Stripes in a project and you can't
disclose the nature of that project. Maybe when you didn't speak of your
qualifications, it was out of humility. And on the last point, maybe that was
an attempt to keep from sinking further into the quicksand.
What I like is that you stepped forward. I like that you have used Stripes for
years and watched it evolve. I like that you got a +1 from Melinda, who has
been active on the mailing list for years.
On the negative side, you don't seem to have been very active on the mailing
list or IRC. Even though you have been watching the activity for a long time,
to the rest of us you just sort of came out of nowhere to claim a leadership
role.
I admit that I no longer have the time or energy to provide proper leadership
on this project. I think we do need someone who can coordinate things. What
people are asking of you is just a little sales pitch. We want to know what you
think the project needs and what you plan to do to provide that. I hope you'll
indulge us.
-Ben
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Freddy Daoud
<xf2...@fastmail.fm<mailto:xf2...@fastmail.fm>> wrote:
Just my 2c, I hope this doesn't make things "worse" in terms of
misunderstandings.
>I am not interested in taking a leading role, I am interested in
>taking *the lead*. Yes, I am aware of how this comes across and no I
>will not apologize for it. As I have stated before, what Stripes
>needs most is leadership, plain and simple.
Personally, I was thrilled when I read Ed's comment. I did not read
any "dictatorship" into it. All I read was that someone was willing
to step up to the plate, stating it clearly, no two ways about it.
I respect that very much.
I agree that Stripes needs leadership. Again, I don't see this as
a synonym of "dictatorship", nor an opposite to "consensus". What I
do see in this is someone, Ed, who has the skill and the will to
assume the role of Stripes lead.
This does not mean to rule out other participants. But, IMHO, we
do *need* someone that decides and makes things happen. Sure,
it's all teamwork, but at the end of the day, when someone submits
a patch, asks when the next release will be, asks if a feature
belongs in the framework, and so on, there has to be *someone*
who is *committed* to addressing and responding.
It's not a one-man show. But the problem with a team of
contributors without someone who is the lead, is that for some
issues, everyone looks at everyone else and no one responds.
This is why I applaud Ed's statement that he is willing to take
on this responsibility for Stripes.
First on the list, I think, is to plan out the release of
Stripes 1.5.x and Stripes 1.6, and work from there.
Again, just my 2c. I hope I didn't create more than resolve
"conflict", and please also know that I don't mean to speak
for you, Ed. I'm just expressing what I read into it, and I
hope it rings true with your intentions. I'm pretty sure you
didn't mean that you would become a dictator, nor that you
wouldn't encourage teamwork and healthy discussions about
Stripes' future.
Personally, I say thanks, Ed. You have my vote.
Cheers,
Freddy
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