No flames, but here's my .02:
Sure, some M$ development tools shorten the cycle for creating GUI widgets, and
apparently web interfaces as well according to the email below. But here's my
(different) experience with Visual Studio and MFC whilst creating a windows
application a couple of years ago: There's a finite number of ways to create any
particular GUI, and you better make sure you know what the 'right' way is, because the
development environment doesn't give a damn how you want to piece the GUI framework
together, and is not at all forgiving. Also, if you make a mistake somewhere along
the way in your wizard or visual dev. environment, and want to make a spot manual
change, good luck. Do it through the interface or suffer the consequences. Finally,
the MFC classes' API just plain sucks, IMHO. It may have improved lately, and I know
.NET has better interfaces, but frankly debugging my MFC app. was a real pain in part
because the APIs were not intuitive, and I found myself reading usage docs for the
most trivial of function calls. I have rarely found this to be the case with Java's
core APIs, J2EE, or Jakarta's projects. That experience has jaded me quite a bit
towards M$ development, I'm afraid.
If you want to create a nice desktop app. quickly, sure, go with Visual Studio. For
enterprise development, I just don't endorse M$'s one-size-fits-all approach. I'd
much rather have choices. :)
peace,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Cancro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Fri 8/30/2002 10:37 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Cc:
Subject: RE: Java Server Faces and Developer Life Comments
I agree. I'm really glad someone finally brought this up. Microsoft
products make development a lot easier. All religious bias aside, I think
most opensource advocates are pragmatically banking on opensource eventually
becoming as easy to use as Microsoft stuff, but without the downsides of
Microsoft software, like cost and vendor lock-in for example. Opensource
products have just focused on functionality first, and ease of use second.
I think the ease of use part won't really take off until a victor emerges
from the functionality phase, and there are still a bunch of contenders
competing for that title. Or maybe I'm wrong and folks just think GUI tools
for building GUI apps are for sissies.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elderclei R Reami [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Java Server Faces and Developer Life Comments
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've just finished my first Struts project, and it's been a
> great experience on how to do and not to do things. This
> list has been of great help, as well.
>
> Anyway, I have some comments to make. Please, don't flame me,
> because it's just a view someone that needs
> to be productive.
>
> I've developed a project some time ago using .Net framework
> and Visual Studio. Wonderful experience, very very
> much productive. Creation of a web interface is just a matter
> of point and click. First impression: "that's what I
> need for mass production, short 'sell, implement, bill'
> cycles". Graphical components do keep state during calls,
> integration is event-oriented, which makes it easy like
> Visual Basic or Delphi traditional dev. Really easy to learn
> and use.
>
> About Struts: hard to use, lack of good development tools,
> but years light ahead of pure JSP development. Struts
> has all the chances of being the way to go. It just needs to
> be made easier to use, what means: GUI
> development. I've seen some options: "Eclipse+EasyStruts",
> StrutsBuilder, StrutsConsole - great tools, but none
> of them really make GUI+Struts integration easy, they are
> more like wizards, and need a lot of work yet.
>
> Even though, I'm passionate about Java, I need to recognize:
> M$ really makes UI development a lot easier than
> Sun/Java/Open Source Community. If you ever developed a VB
> app and a Swing-based Java app, knows what I
> mean. The point is: M$ approach is make it easy, our approach
> is make it generic, and conceptually beautiful. M$
> approach is "sell it, do it fast with small costs, have more profit".
>
> I haven't read the entire JSF spec, but I've seen the
> tutorial, and as far as I understand it, JSF does not make
> programming UI interface much easier than Struts.
>
> Any comments? The matter is: I have a family, and want to get
> home earlier, not 4:00AM. A lot of philosophy and
> online psychoterapy for FRIDAY, but... :)
>
> Cheers,
> Elderclei R Reami
> Vertis Tecnologia
> +55 11 3887-0835
> www.vertisnet.com.br
>
>
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