Hi James, I guess you were talking about Avalon, which is a nice tool to model functional flow, but it's not exactly what we want.
Hope we have easier life soon, or M$ will surely dominate other development niche. People using WSAD says it's extremely slow, but I've never used it. Regards, Elder PS: Now it's time for [Beer] On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:35:52 -0500, "James Higginbotham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu : > De: "James Higginbotham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Data: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:35:52 -0500 > Para: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Assunto: RE: Java Server Faces and Developer Life Comments > > I have to agree with your assessment: Struts is a fabulous framework, > and now we need a real application development environment to sit on top > of it. Kudos to all those writing graphical interfaces to struts, but > most of them are just GUI panels on top of the config files. I saw one > (can't recall the name) that was commercial and offered page flow mgmt > as well - nice addition, but still not where I want to be. > > My preferred way of working would be simliar to the old days of > NetDynamics (before Sun bought them and closed them up - yeah, yeah, > became part of iPlanet - whatever!). Define your project, define your > datasource(s), define your pages, define your page fields, bind the data > fields from your sources to your page fields. Its sort of like > Powerbuilder or M$ tools, but would use the appropriate design patterns. > NetD wrote their own app server, since j2ee wasn't out until they were > bought by Sun, and servlets were just something cute. Toward the end, > they started to support EJB 1.0 and even allowed your page fields to > bind to EJB methods (!) rather than to your datasource - viola! Instant > data binding to your business methods. They offered page templates > (before JSP) with the option of diving into the action and page code to > fix things, and offered many ways for most sites (esp intranets that > need to publish data quickly) to get going very fast. > > Now, can this fix everything? No! Can this get rid of your expense > developers? No! There are still hard problems to solve, and right/wrong > ways to do things.. Can this help your developers spend less time > messing with config files, page workflows (wizards, etc), and simple > data binding tasks and more time working on the application at hand? I > believe so.. > > Oh, and if there is someone out there who is writing, has written, or > intends to write something like this - contact me, I really would like > to help or be a beta tester! > > Enjoy the weekend! > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Elderclei R Reami [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:36 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Java Server Faces and Developer Life Comments > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I've just finished my first Struts project, and it's been a > > great experience on how to do and not to do things. This > > list has been of great help, as well. > > > > Anyway, I have some comments to make. Please, don't flame me, > > because it's just a view someone that needs > > to be productive. > > > > I've developed a project some time ago using .Net framework > > and Visual Studio. Wonderful experience, very very > > much productive. Creation of a web interface is just a matter > > of point and click. First impression: "that's what I > > need for mass production, short 'sell, implement, bill' > > cycles". Graphical components do keep state during calls, > > integration is event-oriented, which makes it easy like > > Visual Basic or Delphi traditional dev. Really easy to learn > > and use. > > > > About Struts: hard to use, lack of good development tools, > > but years light ahead of pure JSP development. Struts > > has all the chances of being the way to go. It just needs to > > be made easier to use, what means: GUI > > development. I've seen some options: "Eclipse+EasyStruts", > > StrutsBuilder, StrutsConsole - great tools, but none > > of them really make GUI+Struts integration easy, they are > > more like wizards, and need a lot of work yet. > > > > Even though, I'm passionate about Java, I need to recognize: > > M$ really makes UI development a lot easier than > > Sun/Java/Open Source Community. If you ever developed a VB > > app and a Swing-based Java app, knows what I > > mean. The point is: M$ approach is make it easy, our approach > > is make it generic, and conceptually beautiful. M$ > > approach is "sell it, do it fast with small costs, have more profit". > > > > I haven't read the entire JSF spec, but I've seen the > > tutorial, and as far as I understand it, JSF does not make > > programming UI interface much easier than Struts. > > > > Any comments? The matter is: I have a family, and want to get > > home earlier, not 4:00AM. A lot of philosophy and > > online psychoterapy for FRIDAY, but... :) > > > > Cheers, > > Elderclei R Reami > > Vertis Tecnologia > > +55 11 3887-0835 > > www.vertisnet.com.br > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > For > > additional commands, > > e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Elderclei R Reami Vertis Tecnologia +55 11 3887-0835 www.vertisnet.com.br -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
