On 8/25/06, urza9814 at gmail.com <urza9814 at gmail.com> wrote: > True, but the opennet isn't illegal. > I'm not in any way saying the darknet shouldn't be added...it's a > great feature...but freenet has always been an opennet, and that > should be done first. People who want a darknet are probably already > using other programs like Waste. If they start thinking about making > the opennet form of freenet illegal, we'll know long before it > happens. And there will be plenty of people (EFF, ACLU, etc) fighting > it. I realize there are other countries where they can't use an > opennet, but like I said, there are other darknet programs out there. > That's not what freenet is.
Waste doesn't scale nearly as well as freenet 0.7 so there is a reason to do it. Besides, if we don't get a darknet it'll all be a wasted effort in a few years when they outlaw freenet for some reason which I believe will happen and I'd be surprised if it take more than 5 more years. > > On 8/24/06, Lars Juel Nielsen <lars.j.nielsen at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 8/24/06, urza9814 at gmail.com <urza9814 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > "As I see it 0.7 relies on a bunch of people hooking up by sharing node > > > information. I may be a part of a freenet 0.7 network that consists of > > > less > > > than 20 people. Out there somewhere else is another group of people, but > > > that group might be 100 people. Unless someone in the 2 groups makes a > > > connection, shares node information, the 2 groups don't talk to each > > > other. > > > Making matters worse, the only connection they have is through that one > > > shared connection. There is no redundancy. Am I wrong in this assumption?" > > > > > > Yup...pretty much. That's why so many people refuse to switch to 0.7 > > > until there's a working opennet. I'm one of them. With an opennet, you > > > connect to anyone who's online, with multiple connections. Don't have > > > to trade references and you get a lot more connections with no effort. > > > > What will you do when freenet is made illegal and all the nodes are > > being harvested and blocked by a national firewall? Then the whole > > network fall apart, this can not happen with a darknet if it's done > > right. To take down a darknet you have to find participants and trick > > them to letting you in and then you can start finding out which hosts > > are part of it. > > > > It's a lot easier, cheaper and faster to take down an opennet than a > > darknet. > > > > > Not totally sure about the 'if the one node linking them dies you lose > > > all that data' part...seems like that's how it'd be handled, but I > > > haven't looked into 0.7 too much...because it has no opennet, so I > > > have no use for it. > > > > > > On 8/24/06, diddler4u at hotmail.com <diddler4u at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > What about a pipe to the 0.5 freenet from 0.7 that allows access to the > > > > data? A 1-way street. 0.7 can add data to the 0.7 freenet, but can and > > > > to > > > > the 0.5 freenet. Only access the data. From what I have gathered, > > > > 'inserting' data into freenet is not a quick task. > > > > > > > > As I see it 0.7 relies on a bunch of people hooking up by sharing node > > > > information. I may be a part of a freenet 0.7 network that consists of > > > > less > > > > than 20 people. Out there somewhere else is another group of people, but > > > > that group might be 100 people. Unless someone in the 2 groups makes a > > > > connection, shares node information, the 2 groups don't talk to each > > > > other. > > > > Making matters worse, the only connection they have is through that one > > > > shared connection. There is no redundancy. Am I wrong in this > > > > assumption? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: urza9814 at gmail.com > > > > >Reply-To: support at freenetproject.org > > > > >To: support at freenetproject.org > > > > >Subject: Re: [freenet-support] Freenet 0,5 and 0,7 > > > > >Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:01:46 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >Freenet 0.5 is an opennet. You connect to any random node that happens > > > > >to be on. Freenet 0.7 doesn't have this yet. In 0.7, there is no main > > > > >network. There might be now, but the idea of the way it currently is > > > > >setup is to allow small groups to connect without connecting to > > > > >everyone else. Pretty much, there's nowhere for the content to go. > > > > >It'd be like trying to move everything on the internet to your local > > > > >LAN. > > > > >That, and it's just a complete program re-write I believe. It's quite > > > > >easy to 'convert' the content...open a page, save it, and then > > > > >re-upload it. The data stores work differently, and anyways the data > > > > >is distributed, so there wouldn't be any easy way to move it over. > > > > > > > > > >On 8/24/06, diddler4u at hotmail.com <diddler4u at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>I've got a question for the developers. > > > > >> > > > > >>First a couple of comments. > > > > >> > > > > >>I've been watching the thread 0.5 vs 0.7, and although you want to > > > > >>move it > > > > >>somewhere else I welcome it. > > > > >> > > > > >>I brought up 0.7 about 5 days ago. It's been running ever since, I > > > > >>think. > > > > >>I > > > > >>don't monitor the PC that it is on, but I do see activity on the > > > > >>router > > > > >>port > > > > >>for the PC. I didn't much like the idea of asking people to let me > > > > >>access > > > > >>Freenet through them, but I did. I still think that is a good idea to > > > > >>gain > > > > >>initial access to Freenet, but after that it should go find other > > > > >>nodes > > > > >>and > > > > >>establish connections to them. I shouldn't have to always rely on the > > > > >>ones > > > > >>that were on IRC chat at the time I decided to set up the application. > > > > >> > > > > >>That said, here is by question. > > > > >> > > > > >> >From what I've seen here, there is a huge base of Freenet users on > > > > >> >0.5, > > > > >>and > > > > >>a large amount of content. What I fail to understand is why going to > > > > >>version > > > > >>0.7 all of that userbase and content was dropped. Why there was no > > > > >>way to > > > > >>connect to that Freenet and have access to the users and the content. > > > > >>I've > > > > >>tried to think of an example of some other internet application that > > > > >>made > > > > >>such a radical change that the entire existing base was dropped, and > > > > >>quite > > > > >>frankly I can't come up with one. I've seen application for my PC > > > > >>change > > > > >>so > > > > >>radically the data from the old application had to be converted > > > > >>before it > > > > >>would work, but a migration path was always provided. Developers, why > > > > >>did > > > > >>you do that? > > > > >> > > > > >>I'm new to the Freenet community, and I find it incredulous that > > > > >>years of > > > > >>effort involved with building the Freenet community was abandoned > > > > >>completely. What you have created is a 0.5 and a 0.7 Freenet; both > > > > >>will > > > > >>exist into the future. Just as many security conscious people quit > > > > >>upgrading > > > > >>PGP after 6.52 because source code was no longer readily available, > > > > >>many > > > > >>people will quit upgrading Freenet after 0.5. The difference is with > > > > >>PGP a > > > > >>file encrypted with 6.52 can be read by the newer versions. Freenet > > > > >>has > > > > >>isolated all of it's previous userbase and content. > > > > >> > > > > >>There is a saying, "Throwing out the baby with the bath water." You > > > > >>have > > > > >>done just that. > > > > >> > > > > >>_________________________________________________________________ > > > > >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's > > > > >>FREE! > > > > >>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > >> > > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > > >>Support mailing list > > > > >>Support at freenetproject.org > > > > >>http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > > > >>Unsubscribe at > > > > >>http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > > > >>Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > ><HTML> > > > > ><a href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=57";><img > > > > >border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" > > > > >src="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/180x60/blank.gif"/></a> > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >Support mailing list > > > > >Support at freenetproject.org > > > > >http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > > > >Unsubscribe at > > > > >http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > > > >Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Support mailing list > > > > Support at freenetproject.org > > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > > > Unsubscribe at > > > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > > > Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > <HTML> > > > <a > > > href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=57";><img > > > border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" > > > src="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/180x60/blank.gif"/></a> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Support mailing list > > > Support at freenetproject.org > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > > Unsubscribe at > > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > > Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Support mailing list > > Support at freenetproject.org > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > Unsubscribe at > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > -- > <HTML> > <a href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=57";><img > border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" > src="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/180x60/blank.gif"/></a> > _______________________________________________ > Support mailing list > Support at freenetproject.org > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe >
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