Howdy all,
Maybe to understand the Y2K thing, we need to do a little time travel, back
to the days of COBOL.
Way back then, (and although I'm not THAT, I did learn to program using
COBOL and punched cards) is was most common to store dates as a six digit
number ie
05 WS-DATE
10 WD-DAY PIC 99
10 WD-MONTH PIC 99
10 WD-YEAR PIC 99
or something like that if my memory still works. I was taught this stuff in
the early eighties, and we weren't told anything about the potential Y2K
problems.
The actually storage used (whether it be bytes, nibbles, words, whatever)
wasn't any direct concern to the programmer. I think it was all stored as
BCD, except for BINARY fields which were stored as words or some such thing.
Like I said, this was a while ago, so please don't flame me if this isn't
completely accurate!
Anyway, I remember being taught to use special values ie 9999 to signal the
end of a processing run (like a STOP CARD at the end of punched card deck).
In this case, it would be perfectly possible to have a condition statement
checking for a date value of 9999 and exiting the loop.
And, of course, none of us ever imagined that such code could spossibly be
still running in 1999, in many cases ported to desktop PCs which are more
powerful than the ICL 2980 mainframe we were using back then.
And why use 9999 and not 999999? Maybe, just maybe, the program had
validation code which didn't allow the month to be higher than 99 or day to
be greater then 31.
Anyway, looking at it now, we can say that using "special values" for
datafields to indicate special conditions was really tacky, but then you've
got to remember that now we're in the days of gigabyte hard drives on our
notebooks, instead of 80 column punched cards.
BTW Most older (386 / early 486) AMI BIOSes that I've tested, go back to
1/1/1980 after midnight on 31 December 1999. That's simply inexcusable!
Cheers
Paul Cull
> Then could you (or someone else) please explain the problem to me? The
> explanation(s) I've recieved (including from people who claim they now)
are
> that the computer stores the date as 2 numbers. This is highly unlikely if
> you ask me since a computer stores with either "0" or "1" - 2 numbers
> wouldn't be enough for many years, and even if they meant that it could
> store 99 then it will be able to store 100. (Of course unless Binary Coded
> Digit have been used - but that uses more memmory then the normal way does
> so there's no point to do so on little RAM. Well actually it might be able
> to be stored since if a carry flag is set it will work anyway (but that
> requires much more from the programmer)).
>
> >My greatest concern is that
> >people err on the side of safety and avoid panic buying, bank runs,
> >etc.... all of which are irrational human reactions to a very
> >POSSIBLE set of technical problems. There are many great sites on
> >this issue. As a Christian pastor, I like this one:
> >
> > www.josephproject2000.org/about.html
> >
> >IMO their views are balanced and positive.
>
> My grandmother believs that the devil will come at 2000 - that's what she
> and her friends read in the Bible. Don't get me wrong, I'm christian as
> well - but we can always see things "From a certian point of view".
>
> >The common folk will look to those of us who are computer "experts"
> >to give them a sense of what's happening. If we err, I'd rather err
> >on the side of warning people about something that might happen and
> >doesn't than to err by telling them that nothing will happen, and
> >something does.
>
> But what if it have resulted in a loss of money for no actual reason?
> People will be upset since (everyone?) can come up with better things to
> spend tax money etc. on.
> file://Bernie
> http://hem1.passagen.se/bernie/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:58:35 +0000
> From: Emil Josefsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: How to detect a 12X Panasonic CD-ROM drive?
>
> I bought a second hand CD-ROM drive, a 12X Panasonic drive, or
> CR-584-B, as it's also called. It didn't come with any drivers,
> but it did come with a cable that I think is meant to be connected
> to a sound card. I've done so and it seems to spinning fine, but
> I don't know how to make the system detect this CD-ROM drive,
> and what sort of drivers I need?
>
> Another question I have is this: From my old 2X Panasonic drive
> I have an interface card with a large gray cable that fits into
> the new drive but I'm not sure wheter the new 12X should be
> connected with this card, or if it just needs to be
> connected to the sound card?
>
> /Emil Josefsson
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:00:25 -0400
> From: "J. P. Letellier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: time service
>
> Sorry, I have been to busy to lurk properly. For time service,
> try http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/modem_time.html
>
> jp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:23:46 +0200
> From: Bernie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Y2K problem a lie?
>
> Sam Heywood wrote:
> > Back in the good old days of DOS version 1.0 and CPM, many programs
> > were written in which forms were processed under an infinite loop
> > routine which provided for a keyboard input of "9999" as the
> > "stop program" command, being the only valid input for exiting the
> > loop and ending the program. A computer operator running such a
> > program would encounter a prompt stating "Enter the date". To stop
> > the program and exit, the operator would simply enter "9999". A
> > program properly written to work in this fashion would always
> > execute just fine and never produce any problems except in the
> > special case in which the operator intended to enter "9999" as a
> > valid date, rather than as a "stop program" command. During the
> > era in which the programs were written, everybody "assumed" (and you
> > know what this means) that the programs would have been superseded
> > and replaced by new programs prior to September 9th, 1999.
>
> The key here is that you write "a keyboard input of "9999" as the "stop
> program" command". So the way to solve this is easy just don't enter that
> into the computer (and why not ask the computer for the date?).
> More to the point: (19)990909 doesn't contain four 9:s (9999) in a row
> (imagine if we only had 9 months a year and 9 days in each of them!)
> file://Bernie
> http://hem1.passagen.se/bernie/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:47:27 -0700
> From: JAMES WEBSTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: How to detect a 12X Panasonic CD-ROM drive?
>
> Emil,
>
> http://www.mei.co.jp/corp/Download/cdromdriver_e.html
> http://www.panasonic.com/host/support/software-drivers-oem-cd-r.html
>
> For the CR-584 drivers, go to either URL above and download
> the file "58x_dos.exe". This CD-ROM drive is an IDE ATAPI
> drive. So it can either attach to a sound card (which has/
> is an IDE connector), directly to the Secondary IDE connection
> of a controller card, or as a slave from the HDD. Just make
> sure that you have the jumper set for the appropriate
> connection. If I am not mistaken, they are:
> CS (Cable Select) = Sound card connection.
> SL (Slave) = Slave from a HDD or other device.
> MA (Master) = Direct or single connection to the
> Secondary IDE of the controller card.
> You should not use the Panasonic 2x cable. Most pre-4x
> speed CD-ROM drives were proprietary. And this would also
> apply to the cables. It was not until around the 4x speed
> CD-ROMs that the ATAPI specification took hold (or was
> somewhat finalized, at least). And just as a FYI, Windows
> 95/98 has built-in (native) support for IDE CD-ROM drives.
> I hope that this helps. Or at least, that I am right. :-)
> Jim Webster
>
> Emil Josefsson wrote:
> >
> > I bought a second hand CD-ROM drive, a 12X Panasonic drive, or
> > CR-584-B, as it's also called. It didn't come with any drivers,
> > but it did come with a cable that I think is meant to be connected
> > to a sound card. I've done so and it seems to spinning fine, but
> > I don't know how to make the system detect this CD-ROM drive,
> > and what sort of drivers I need?
> >
> > Another question I have is this: From my old 2X Panasonic drive
> > I have an interface card with a large gray cable that fits into
> > the new drive but I'm not sure wheter the new 12X should be
> > connected with this card, or if it just needs to be
> > connected to the sound card?
> >
> > /Emil Josefsson
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:44:07 -0300
> From: John Fielding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: How to detect a 12X Panasonic CD-ROM drive?
>
> > I bought a second hand CD-ROM drive, a 12X Panasonic drive, or
> > CR-584-B, as it's also called. It didn't come with any drivers,
> > but it did come with a cable that I think is meant to be connected
> > to a sound card. I've done so and it seems to spinning fine, but
> > I don't know how to make the system detect this CD-ROM drive,
> > and what sort of drivers I need?
> For the drivers, you should be able to find em if you spend some
> time crawling though the Panasonic web site (last time I checked
> http://www.panasonic.com worked like a charm). I'm unsure on
> how friendly the page is with a text only browser or in Arachne, so if
>
> > Another question I have is this: From my old 2X Panasonic drive
> > I have an interface card with a large gray cable that fits into
> > the new drive but I'm not sure wheter the new 12X should be
> > connected with this card, or if it just needs to be
> > connected to the sound card?
> I've got an old 2x right in front of me. That gray cable would be the
> important one. The dinky little one that hooks up to the sound card
> is so CD Audio can just be shunted directly from the CD to
> speakers, as the CD-Rom uses it's own Digital Audio Converter
> (DAC) instead of the audio card's for converting the 0's and 1's into
> sound ;`)
> The big cable would actually be a proprietary IDE type thing. It's the
> main connection that allows data access to the drive. I've got my
> 2x strung in though the ol SB Pro, which has the proprietary IDE
> interface built in to avoid the need of a separate interface card. I
> don't know enough about all this other than that 12x might have to
> be set up though a regular IDE channel (same interface as your
> Hard Drive is connected though, provided your not using a SCSI
> drive...).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:47:07 -0500
> From: Harsha Godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: How to detect a 12X Panasonic CD-ROM drive?
>
> Emil:
> You can get the drivers for the CDrom drive from Panasonic
> site. You may have to dig a little.
>
> Your new drive doesnot need the interface card from your older
> drive. The new drive's flat ribbon cable can be connected to a
> secondary IDE channel on your motherboard/ or Multi I/O card. Or
> remove the cable and connect it to the Hard drive cable (on the
> second connector, if you have only one IDE harddrive).
>
> All this depends on the type of Motherboard/CPU/ Multi I/O card in
> your system. So if you post that information it will help.
>
> Do you have IDE connectors on your Motherboard?
> Do you have one or more IDE harddrives?
> Do you have a Multi I/O card with connectors for HD/FD etc. If so
> how many IDE channels?
>
> Regards
> Harsha Godavari
>
> Emil Josefsson wrote:
> >
> > I bought a second hand CD-ROM drive, a 12X Panasonic drive, or
> > CR-584-B, as it's also called. It didn't come with any drivers,
> > but it did come with a cable that I think is meant to be connected
> > to a sound card. I've done so and it seems to spinning fine, but
> > I don't know how to make the system detect this CD-ROM drive,
> > and what sort of drivers I need?
> >
> > Another question I have is this: From my old 2X Panasonic drive
> > I have an interface card with a large gray cable that fits into
> > the new drive but I'm not sure wheter the new 12X should be
> > connected with this card, or if it just needs to be
> > connected to the sound card?
> >
> > /Emil Josefsson
> >
> > To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message.
> > Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:36:47 +0200
> From: Alessio Palma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Trash those WWW standrards
>
> Questo � un messaggio multi-parte scritto in formato MIME.
> --------------7EF38C762F4CD655DC036391
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> 90% world's computers are using micro$oft products. It's really dangerous
> using micro$oft standards on internet, this means make internet Bill
> Gates' propriety. Do you remember Netscape-Windows war? Do you think
> Micro$oft correct in putting a web-browser inside Window$?
> Are you a developer? Do you know that micro$oft make software works better
> using undocumented w95's API? Do you think this is correct?
>
> Or Botton ha scritto:
>
> > On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:36:37 -0700, John Oram wrote:
> >
> > > IF anyone buys this one they're killing the openness of the web.
> >
> > Didnt really understood this one.
> >
> > Do you mean, that instead of sending text-based E-Mail, it sends
> > .DOC files? If this is what it is, then its allready common in
> > Israel, since adding hebrew to E-Mail is really, really hard.
> >
> > So most people just write the letter in Word and send it using
> > attachment. When I get these I cant complain since they hate
> > having to read in english. And I cant write to them in hebrew..
> > And those who have no problem to read in english, just ignore
> > the complain since i'm the only one who seems to hate getting
> > such letters. <sigh>.
> >
> > If I got it wrong, then please explain what is that thing?
> >
> > BTW
> > Yes, I know that there are Word viewers for DOS. But these viewers
> > do not support .DOC files written in hebrew. Allready tried..
> >
> > To unsubscribe from SURVPC send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> > unsubscribe SURVPC in the body of the message.
> > Also, trim this footer from any quoted replies.
>
> --------------7EF38C762F4CD655DC036391
> Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
> name="kht.vcf"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Description: Scheda di Alessio Palma
> Content-Disposition: attachment;
> filename="kht.vcf"
>
> begin:vcard
> n:Palma;Alessio
> tel;cell:0338.4001345
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> url:http://kht.home.dhs.org
> org:Know How & Tecnhologies
> adr:;;;Pescara;;;Italy
> version:2.1
> email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> fn:Alessio Palma
> end:vcard
>
> --------------7EF38C762F4CD655DC036391--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:56:46 -0400
> From: JJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: I need help ...Power Supply
>
> Do any of you know where I could find a power supply for an IBM PS/1
> (486sx). I found this machine at an auction.. but it was without the
> power supply.Where do I begin ???
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:14:50 -0700
> From: Garry Hamilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Make Opera do java
>
> Margaret,
>
> Oops! -- Did i miss something?
> I'm running Opera with Win95 & Win98.
> It is my understanding that the Java VM
> runs only in 32-bit environments.
>
> Anyone know differently?
>
> ~~Garry
> -----------------
> > Margaret Chesler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Just curious, Garry, are you running this stuff on Windows 3.1?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > I have done the Opera Java thing -- works
> > fine.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:25:00 +0200
> From: Gunnar Thoele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Y2K problem is a lie?
>
> Hallo Bernie!
>
> >I never saw any problems with GPS either when it switched from 1023 to
> >0 (in weeks from the start) - did anyone else?
> A local newspaper said that some car navigation systems failed in Japan.
>
> >When the bells ring in the new millenia I believe there will be no
> >problems
> Well, personally i think that things might happen, but not as bad as
> people say. Oh, by the way, my mother even asked me if our new (computer
> controlled... in effect microcontroller controlled) dishwasher will
> still work in 2000...
>
> --
> Gunnar Th�le
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:44:31 -0400
> From: Howard Eisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: time standard
>
> I wrote:
>
> >The timserver I used is the primary nameserver/default
> >gateway at my ISP (FreeNet).
> >I had to "ntime host -5" to adjust from GMT to EDT.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Correction: This is wrong. "ntime host" now works correctly.
> The adjustment is for minutes. I'm not sure what I was doing
> before.
>
> Howard E.
>
> --
> * DOS TCP/IP for NCF * <URL:http://www.ncf.ca/~ag221/dosppp.html> *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SURVPC Digest - 9 Sep 1999 to 10 Sep 1999 (#1999-294)
> ************************************************************
>
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