Hi to all My salute and million thanks to people behind in making this website I donāt want to elaborate more but express my gratitude and personal thank you to all. My your day be merry this coming season greetings Best wishes Frank
-----Original Message----- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:36 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Commercial production Hi Hakan >If you can sell your biodiesel and make a profit that is acceptable for >you, please sell it. The morality does not rest with who is using it, it is >rather that someone is prepared to use it. It is not like you are giving >someone an advantage or a favor. It is that someone has moral enough that >buy it, often despite a higher price, and use it for the to support future >generations. > >It is a huge task to change the fossil habits and every little step is >important. Promote and make a good business out of diversified biofuel >production and do not attempt to make it an honor for your clients to buy >from you. This way you are acting in a moral way and every gallon sold, >substitute the use of a gallon of fossil fuel. Your and other small >producers success is a moral thing in itself. > >Good luck and go out and get the totally immoral energy corporations! > >Hakan But this isn't really what William was asking. The nub of it's near the end: > >the general public. I am afraid, however, that I may upset some by > >turning a profit using methods and information (although modified) >by others. He's worried about the rights and wrongs of taking and using for commercial gain information freely given at Journey to Forever, a lot of which comes from here, the Biofuel list - very many people have given their time and efforts to developing the biodiesel information and technology now available to anybody. Would it be right for a business just to take it over, put their name on it and get rich off it? Thor said this of the Biofuel list a while back: "I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is. Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange - it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the planet fries." "... entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange..." But how exactly does that work? There are people here, list members, who're just here for what they can get. Some of them are using the list, the list members and list resources as a free consultancy service - they take what they want, even raise discussions on it, and put it to their own use. This might have nothing to do with what Thor said and what we're all on about here - small-scale, localised, distributed biofuels production, truly sustainable, renewable energy production with a future to it. Some of them have big plans for high-production, centralised plants and would normally be paying megabucks to consultancies for the kind of information they get here for nothing. What's most noticeable is that they PUT NOTHING BACK IN. Some even talk of patents. I suppose they think we're a bunch of mugs. We know a lot of people do that with the information at Journey to Forever as well - we get quite seriously ripped off. Well, we knew that would happen when we started it but decided to do it anyway. Our perhaps idealistic idea of it is that the rip-off merchants don't thrive, though they might think they do, and that those who know what it means to cast your bread upon the waters do thrive, and not only that but it spreads. Indeed there are those here (the majority?) who understand the meaning of collaboration and act accordingly. We have some fine examples of "entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange" - it works both ways, not just one-way. Bill Clark's excellent project comes to mind, Jack Kenworthy at the Island School, quite a few others. I'd like to hear their views on these issues. And Todd's, who has a clear vision of this. Also Mark, who most eloquently outlined the downside in her "Homebrewer on a soapbox" post: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/18491/ In brief, what sort of small biofuels business do we support, and what sort do we not support? The excellent information developed collaboratively by list members and available to all in the archives and at Journey to Forever is or isn't available for commercial use, and if it is, under what conditions? Not that we can stop anyone using it, it's there for the taking, the door's wide open, but some clear-cut language in a sign on the door wouldn't go amiss. We all want to see biofuels replacing fossil fuels, but we've also come to realise that there are good ways and bad ways of doing it. Many of us don't see the NBB and Big Soy eg as our friends in any way - their aims are not our aims, often quite the opposite. Some of us don't see so-called "small producers" as necessarily any better than big ones (and not all big ones are the same either). We have a lot of history to go on now, we've covered most of this ground in detail, and mostly via events, developments, problems that had to be solved, barriers that had to be removed - not just talk. We should be able to distill quite a clear picture out of it all so we can give people who ask questions like William's some guidance, and encouragement. And show certain others the door. I think the Linux crowd knows more about this than we do. We have some Linux freaks among us - do they have any light to shed? Best wishes Keith >At 19:45 09/12/2003, you wrote: > >Keith- > > > >First, I must take my hat off to you and everyone else involved in the > >project and website. The wealth of information is amazing and I hope that > >this information becomes common knowledge. Since becoming interested in > >biofuels I find myself constantly dreaming of a United States freed from > >the governmental control of the fossil fuel industry. > > > >As I have begun my own personal journey to free myself from fossil fuels > >(I recently purchased a 3/4 ton Dodge diesel specifically to run on > >biodiesel) I have been approached by a friend who would like to go into > >business producing biodiesel. > > > >My question is: Are (or rather, Would) we be crossing ethical lines by > >producing biodiesel commercially (read: for profit)? > > > >Although we are a processor and system that is in many ways unique from > >the processors that are described on this site and others that have links > >on this site, most all of the inspiration has come from this site. The > >basic chemical process will also most likely be similar to the "recipes" > >given by Aleks Kac and Joshua Tickell although we plan on using a > >filtering process to refine the biodiesel to commercial specs as opposed > >to washing it. > > > >My original goal is still to produce biodiesel for personal use, but if > >our ideas end up working as well as we think they will, I plan on becoming > >and entrepreneur and do my part to make biodiesel a mainstream option for > >the general public. I am afraid, however, that I may upset some by > >turning a profit using methods and information (although modified) >by others. > > > >Thank you for your time and wonderful work > >billyO Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
