Andrew,
I have to agree to much that is said. When I wrote that the Aussies were
conservative, I meant that they are concerned about how much they think the
Government is taking from them, and the services returned, so they tend to
vote for small change, not larger more radical change. The one time in my
living history that I saw this factor change was when The Labour government
under Gough Whitlam was voted to power in 1972. Unfortunately, Gough had some
great ideas, but rankled the Big C conservatives, so he was undermined &
rediculed. (I too do not agree with many of Goughs ideas, but we do have him
to thank for the little that is now left of his greatest feat: Medicare, an
initially free (to the user) Public medical system, (now eroded by the User
Pays & Pays again system that the conservatives have inflicted on us: said
because we pay for the public system from tax, but also need private Health
Insurance, meaning we pay twice!)
In Australia, there really is not much difference between the Liberal party
policies, & the Labour party policies, as they are both trying to attract the
middle-ground voter. They have even clubbed together to pass legislation like
the US Free Trade Agreement, and to limit the ability of the smaller parties
to compete with the large party machines.
However, there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I think we may see
more independent politicians (with no party affiliations) in power this time,
& I think the election will be so close, these independents will hold the
balance of power.
Australia has compulsory voting, so the turnout is almost 100%. We also
practise Preferential voting (which means that if there are multi candidates
for a seat, the candidate with the lowest (primary) votes has his voters'
second preferences distributed to other candidates, and this continues until
a single candidate has 50%+ of the votes. These factors mean that the
political machinations are much different to the US system for instance.
Anyway, if you are interested in finding out more, Google your questions, or
ask the list for clarification!
regards Doug
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 01:05 am, Andrew Lowe wrote:
> Doug Foskey wrote:
> > The Australian elections are much different to US elections: There is not
> > even a sure bet that either potential PM will be re-elected to his seat!
> > (although I cannot remember a time when this has ever happened...)
> > Personally, I am not enamoured with either candidate. We really need a
> > Statesman to lead our country, but I fear both potential leaders are
> > overawed by the US.
> > I suggest you do a Google on both to see their policies (but one
> > candidate is reputedly non-truthful, according to seemingly reliable
> > sources, but I think this is typical Politician!)
> > On balance, I prefer Mark Latham, but both are ultra conservative, as is
> > a lot of the Australian voting public.
>
> AUTHORS NOTE: I HAVE EATEN A WHOLE LARGE BLOCK OF DARK CHOCOLATE TONIGHT
> SO I MIGHT "RUN OFF AT THE MOUTH" A BIT HERE SO BE WARNED ;)
>
> To say that the Australian public is "ultra conservative" is the biggest
> bunch of piffle I have heard since Howard & Ruddoch tried to explain why
> they where ignoring Lasry's report on Hicks, there's a Google for you
> non Australians ;) The Australian public is basically anti-establishment
> and does not like any "extreme", whether it be too far right or too far
> left. I would characterise the Australian public as being every so
> slightly left of centre, support for public eduction, public health, the
> dole, the environment, but scared that the Labor Party "couldn't run a
> piss up in a brewery" so they vote for the Liberals, the right wing party.
>
> First off, some background for non-Australians. We have two main
> political parties, the Liberal and the Labor parties. Contrary to what
> most people, in particular the USA, would expect, the Liberal party does
> not live up to their name, they are conservative, ranging from "small l"
> liberals, I want to make money, pay less tax, etc but still let me buy X
> rated video's from Canberra, to the "fire & brimstone" ultra
> conservative right wingers, more in line with Bush, Ashcroft etc in the
> USA. At the moment this party is lead by John Howard who is a personal
> friend of George W. Bush. He is very right wing conservative and does
> not believe in sex because it could lead to dancing. He had a similar
> experience to Bush in that whilst he portrays a "family values"
> platform, his son was busted for "drink driving".
>
> The Labor party grow out of shearers strike in the late 1800's in
> outback Queensland and is portrayed as being the political mouthpiece of
> the ACTU, the Australian Council of Trade Unions. Like the Liberals they
> have members who span a good part of the left from "small l" left to "up
> the workers, screw the bosses, nationalise everything". They've nearly
> changed leaders more times in the last 5 years than I've changed undies,
> but for the last 10 months, I think, they have settled on a bloke by the
> name of Mark Latham. Whilst a parliamentarian Mark has: Broken the arm
> of a taxi driver who tried to rip him off.
> Called the Liberals a "bunch of arse lickers" in relation to Howard
> kowtowing to Bush.
> Called Bush "the most dangerous leader" the USA has ever had.
> In other words Mark was a breath of fresh air in the political system
> but possibly seen as being a bit hot headed to be PM by the general public.
>
> We also have a few other parties kicking around. There are the
> Democrats, The Greens, a few independents but it is the two main parties
> where the fun/power is.
>
> After that waffle, on to the questions
>
> Renewable fuels?
> Liberals don't know what to do as it is still small scale hence none of
> their business supporters are yet making any real money out of it. The
> Labor party has made some supportive noises, but that's about all, noises.
> Ethanol
> One of the biggest contributors to the Liberal Party is a bloke who's
> name escapes me but he owns/run The Manildra Group. They are the biggest
> manufacturer of Ethanol in Australia. The owner donated a fair bit of
> money to the Liberals hence Ethanol as an alternative fuel got a run for
> a time but then the tie between Howard & Manildra became known and the
> wheel fell off that wagon. There has been reference made to this on this
> list, check the archives.
>
> Biodiesel
> Originally the word was NO EXCISE. Now there is a 12 year staged
> introduction of excise. This was brought in by the Liberals and Labor
> supported it. All both sides see is missed excise.
>
> Wind
> By now we all know about Australia and Kyoto - we didn't join the party
> on this one. We did some of our own "targets", X% of electricity from
> renewables by 2010, I think. This gave the wind industry a bit of a push
> along with hints that X would become 2X. Unfortunetely this did not
> happen and some quite large investments have been put on the back
> burner. Australia is quite well suited to Wind as we are "right down
> south" with bits that stick into the roaring 40's but once again the
> Liberal party had no idea as to what's going on and dropped the ball.
>
> The Labor party is making more noise on this with talk of increasing
> the renewables target which would once again bring the big projects back
>
> Hydro
> We don't have enough water.....
>
> Environment?
> Liberal: "That's where all those trees are that we can cut down and
> sell to the Japanese to make toilet paper from", even though the trees
> are 400 year old, old growth forests of some of the most magnificent gum
> trees you have ever seen.
>
> Labor: "The people who cut down the trees to sell to the Japanese for
> toilet paper are union members so lets let them cut the trees down".
>
> Water has taken on a bit of a higher priority lately with both parties
> making noise about water conservation but not much to show. The second
> richest man in Australia, Dick Pratt, has led a charge to save huge
> amounts of water but because he is moving too fast and put a few
> buerocratic noses out of joint, he is only getting half hearted support
> from both sides.
>
> Local coal mining and the export of coal?
> Two of the biggest mining companies in the world are Australian, Rio
> Tinto and BHP Billiton. Both have huge coal deposits and mines. Coal is
> also responsible for a good part of Queensland existing, Central
> Queensland, such as Rockhampton, Gladstone etc. You basically can't win
> on this one. The companies are "the big end of town" so the Liberals
> support them, the workers are very highly unionised so Labor supports
> them, either way, the mines are there making money, employing people,
> they are not closing in the near future.
>
> The railroad extension to the Port of Darwin-Good or bad for the country?
> Should make the beer cheaper in Darwin as it will now come up on the
> train - I used to live there ;) In general the train will be good.
> Originally Darwin gets most of its goods via road train, the 3 semi
> trailer long trucks, but with the train, this will change to rail. One
> train equals at least 100 trucks so there will be at least 100 less
> trucks thundering up from Adelaide or across from Brisbane/Cairns every
> week, but on the other hand, this is trouble for the truckies and the
> road houses where they used to stop. The train will allow ships to come
> to Darwin to offload containers and then rail them instead of heading
> all the way around to Melbourne/Sydney - 72 hours by train, about twice
> that by sea. Also the reverse is true, fresh dairy and asparagus from
> Victoria can now be shipped to Singapore/Hong Kong much quicker. Exports
> are expected to rise, with the ports on the eastern seaboard, Melbourne,
> Sydney and Brisbane a bit scared that Darwin will take a lot of their
> business.
>
>
> Well that's a very disjointed overview of things. I'm sure that other
> Australians on the list can add their 5 cents worth, we don't have 1 & 2
> cent pieces anymore, so over to them. I'm now off to walk the dog and
> try and burn off this chocolate high ;)
>
> Andrew
>
> > regards Doug
> >
> > (Looking to the Greener side......)
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:03 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>Folks,
> >>
> >>I was wondering if our Australian friends can give a quick overview about
> >>the two Australian candidates up for election next month?
> >>Candidates for Prime Minister are John Howard and Mark Latham.
> >>
> >>Possibly their views on:
> >>Renewable fuels?
> >>Environment?
> >>Local coal mining and the export of coal?
> >>The railroad extension to the Port of Darwin-Good or bad for the country?
> >>
> >>An article on their stand with Iraq and national security in general:
> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3649928.stm
> >>So, you won't have to delve too much in that area.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Ron Barber
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> >
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