What if we had a voting sytem like American Idol, where people can text message their votes every night.... Sort of scary. But is it scarier to think of a democracy where the average person could vote on each issue, or one where as many people follow TV shows as care about their actual government....
On 10/27/05, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well time for a new thread I guess cause we are a long way off topic. I > think you are right Zeke it's hard not to draw certain conclusions about the > people who put these monsters in office. The problem is it's like going > shopping. You think you have choice but then you find out your money goes > to the same people at the top regardless of the choices you thought you > made. The real problem is that the american lifestyle is not negotiable. > How many here would willingly give up a bunch of affluence and convenience > so that things might be a little more even in the world? Most of them are > too busy trying to catch the carrot on a stick. Even when the government > gives aid don't the farmers and shipping companies expect to be paid > handsomley in the deal? So what really is the will of it's people that the > government should reflect? Or is it really already doing that but in a way > that upsets people but is really the only way left to maintain it? The oil > is necessary to maintain the american lifestyle. Control of world economy > is ideal to this plan even if it means doing dirty things that aren't right. > People are told they have democracy and they believe it but as you said > voting once every four years is hardly democratic. Representative > governance works for the rich and hopefully they can take everyone along for > the ride (because they need them). Boy they must have some real belly > laughs in private when they think about the common man and the illusion of > freedom and democracy. I wonder what things would look like if we had a real > democratic system. If every important decision was put to a vote, sure it > would slow things down but hell a lot of people I talk to seem to think > things are 'progressing' -and I hate to use that term, too quickly anyways. > Surely electronic voting could make a system of national (and god forbid > should I be so bold as to suggest....international) referendum possible. I > know that only a tiny fraction of the world is on the web in terms of it's > population but that does not mean that people could not have acces to a > voting terminal. That must be a very scary thought. > > Joe > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > Sometimes I wonder if the rest of the world understands that all > americans don't support GW and his policies though... After all, we > claim to be a democracy, so therefore, shouldn't the government by > nature reflect the will of it's people. > > In reality, only my congressional representative actualy represents > me, but neither of my senators does, nor my president or vice > president. I actually voted, but I effectively have almost no vote in > our government. Our system is set up for rule by a very narrow > majority with no effective minority voice. But if you listen to our > rhetoric abroad, it's easy to forget this. > > Zeke > > On 10/26/05, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "It seems you are intent on grouping all Americans as one." > > > > Yes, It looks that way, doesn't it? So, I will explain. > > > > Usually, I try not to generalize because it leaves out a lot of information > and can be manipulated to align itself with a particular agenda. However, on > those occasions when I say "Americans" (my apologies to Canadians and others > living on this hemisphere) or US citizens in general, I'm pointing toward a > trend. The references I give below, are what I use to at least partly back > up my position on those trends. Now, although the argument I give is my own, > I find others who agree (some of them are my neighbors). > > > > "...I went to war for this country and would do it over, for the right > reasons..." > > > > The fact that there are soldiers who are duty bound and fighting honorably > in a war is not the reason for the arrival of one to three hundred thousand > protesters in Washington DC on September 24th. It is the horribly convoluted > reason for war which is so disturbing. > > > > "All I can do is try in my own way to change things for the better." > > > > The US as a whole is showing symptoms of fascism. If I, as you say, "group > all Americans as one", please prove me wrong and resist the simple > perception of our culture which hides our dark little secrets and makes > hypocrites out of our government each time they go to preach democracy to > another sovereign nation. Our government needs to "play nice with others" > and work toward being a participant in a World community instead of further > construction of it's empire. > > > > Mike > > > Derick Giorchino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You get not too much of an argument from me but. It seems you are intent on > grouping all Americans as one. > > I also have more than one citizenship. But I went to war for this country > and would do it over, for the right reasons, when I came to America many > years ago it was the envy of the world. And I feel it still would be. If not > for the government and corporate B.S. It disgusts me, but I don't include > myself as part of that. All I can do is try in my own way to change things > for the better. If not for me but maybe my kids and grand kids. Not that I > think it will ever be as it was. But surly it could stand just a tad of > improvement. > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Michael Redler > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:35 AM > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Easy Keith! > > > > > > > > > > OK, you have my attention. > > > > > > Derick wrote: "Not all Americans are lazy stupid or helpless." > > > > > > As an American, I'd like to think that this is true. In fact, I don't think > that Americans are more lazy than any other country or culture. Despite > being the most obese country in the world, we find ourselves in the > workplace at least as many hours as any other country in the world. > > > > > > Joe wrote: "This explains the typical american arrogance that drips from his > rhetoric and which irritates you so well." > > > > > > There are expectations by Americans that other countries and cultures > recognize us as somehow superior. If anyone doubts this, here is a little > experiment: Take comments so commonly heard in political speeches as well as > at backyard barbecues (i.e. "We are the greatest country in the world") and > apply it to Germany (for example). In fact, when an American president > (especially our current president) makes a speech and it's translated into > German and "The United States" is replaced with "Germany", I would argue > that many Americans would be shocked that ANY head of state would make such > a speech. This is the American double standard which I like to call a kind > of pseudo-mutuality since there are still a few countries who are > politically and culturally aligned with this image. > > > > > > There is something terribly wrong with our culture and it's just outside the > view of most citizens. Calling Americans "lazy" though, is inaccurate and > minimizes our long list of troubles. > > > > > > This is what I mean by "list". You try to connect the dots. > > > > > > 1.) "We" have more homicides in our major cities than casualties in war > (irrespective of the circumstances in that war). > > > > > > 2.) "We" have a bizarre view of leadership and fairness by virtue of the > fact that the president (irrespective of which president) is pledged > allegiance even when he (not "she" -yet) takes action which adversely > effects the majority of citizens. At the same time, Americans are known for > supporting the "underdog" and down trodden - almost as if to perpetuate and > preserve this demographic. > > > > > > 3.) "We" struggle to have a standard of K-12 education that matches that of > other developed countries while placing huge emphasis on "faith" and mixed > interpretations of morality. > > > > > > 4.) Half of the citizens in the United States do not support a document > which prevented dictatorships and provided the means for citizens to prosper > for the last two and a half centuries. At the same time, the same proportion > of citizens don't show up to vote for (arguably) the most powerful political > position in the free world. > > > > > > http://www.radessays.com/viewpaper.php?nats=MTAxMToyOjE&request=38800 > > > > > > http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a397df8d00620.htm > > > > > > 5.) Despite being a republic, the US government has taken it upon itself to > preach democracy to other countries - countries with better representation > of their citizens through coalition governments, better voter turnout and > more opportunities for referendums. > > > > > > 6.) We have a so called "free press" which either hides or glorifies the > last five points according to a political agenda, making Americans believe > that journalism here is as comprehensive as that in other developed > countries. > > > > > > ...and the list goes on. > > > > > > One last note: I have a dual citizenship which allows me to permanently move > out of the country. However, my "other list" of things that I love about my > country (having nothing to do with government or politics) keeps me here. I > prefer to stay and be one of many voices of dissent. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Other References: > > > http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism9.htm > > > http://gozips.uakron.edu/~david27/flm/chap9.htm > > > http://www.accd.edu/pac/humaniti/colby/L19.htm > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
