Hi Darryl I'll snip it, it's getting long again, hope you don't mind.
<snip> > >> Of course, if the price of gasoline drops, even a little, then the >>> industrialized world and its consumer pawns will go back to sleep. >> >> Previously that's happened, this time I'm not so sure. A lot of >> things are different. > >So many people keep telling me that, but it looks a lot like the late >70s and early 80s to me. There are lots of similarities, there always are, and often it just turns out to be just a replay. But precedents can obscure the signs of real change when it happens. I'm not looking to see anything in particular, but a lot of things are different, and to me it's adding up to a rather detailed pattern with a quite different dynamic than the late 70s early 80s. Sure, it could just flop anyway, but maybe it won't. Too soon to tell either way. There's good reason to hope, IMHO. <snip> > >> > What's your plan for dealing with old batteries? > >> >>> Re-use and recycling. Of course, we're mucking that up now courtesy of >>> cheap oil, multi-national corporations and uneven laws around >>> environmental behaviour, but I expect we'll eventually figure out that >>> we don't want to ship the old ones half-way round the world to >>> remanufacture them. Lead-acid has a pretty good story with regard to >>> recycling, probably because the "scrap" is so valuable. Last I heard, >>> dead lead-acid batteries (golf-cart size) are fetching $12 and more a >>> piece at the local boneyard. >> > > That turns out to be not a very satisfactory plan. > > <snip> > > The US and Japan aren't short of resources. How about Nepal, or Mali? >> > > Maybe we should set up good arrangements that work first, before we >> dump PVs on everyone. > > >> Some hope, eh? > >Well, batteries are not perfect, and I can't speak for much of the >world. I do what I can where I can. Of course. But, again, Chris was talking about the world, not his own backyard. <snip> >So, we still have used veggie oil being poured into drains or hauled to >landfill instead of being re-used for veggie fuel. We have glycerine >cocktail getting chucked in the dump. As for lead in the environment, I >wonder how much is left out there in the form of fishing weights, >shotgun pellets, ballast from sunken boats, from lead-based paints >(still legal some places), leaded gasoline (still used in aviation >gasoline) and other sources? So? Give up then? You're not going to give up, why so negative? You don't need me to paint in the other side of each of those examples. Did you see this? http://www.precaution.org/lib/08/prn_lead_predicts_crime.080528.htm Childhood Lead Exposure Can Predict Criminality New Scientist, May 28, 2008 "... they found that prenatal and childhood lead concentrations in the blood predicted likelihood of adult arrest. A 5 microgram/decilitre increment in average childhood blood lead level, for instance, increased the rate of arrest for violent crimes by 26%." :-( >Perfection is a worthy target, but I'm tired of seeing it used as a >weapon to stall improvements. As I wrote somewhere else recently, I'm >in favour of human power, electric power and biofuels (where >appropriate). I'm against letting the status quo powerbrokers set us up >to fight each other instead of eroding the fossil fuel hegemony on >multiple fronts. Well said. On the other hand, I'm a little tired of people proposing half-baked "best technology" solutions for other people's livelihoods and wellbeing. It's not just me who says it doesn't work well, it's well-established by now. Eg, Practical Action's view (the Intermediate Technology Development Group, founded by Schumacher): http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous4.html#1511 Technology and the poor Again: > > Maybe we should set up good arrangements that work first, before we >> dump PVs on everyone. Otherwise how will it be an improvement? I'm not after stalling improvements, but we can do without all the "unforeseen side-effects" for a change, don't you think? Take the case I mentioned of the battery fertiliser. I met the owner of a big estate who'd spread the stuff over all of his fields. What was especially sad about it was that this was in a region with severe poverty and starvation problems, and, where other estate owners had evicted most of their tenants (a thousand or so families per estate), part of the Green Revolution, that's how it worked, this man had turned over ownership of the whole estate to his workers and helped them found a cooperative. The place was an island of hope, with poison in the soil, and they didn't know about it. Nice, eh? Improvement? Sorry, it needs better solutions. <snip> > >> Sadly, this week I feel like we're still losing more than we're winning >>> - Ontario announcement to further embrace big nuclear. Apparently I'm >>> supposed to be happy that my guerilla clotheslines were finally >>> legalized a couple of months ago. Not hardly. >> >> That's an insane issue. Glad you won. What if you'd called it a > > renewable energy carbon-saving solar and wind-powered laundry drier, >> you might have got a subsidy instead. Maybe you could have patented >> it, I don't suppose Monsanto has patented clotheslines yet. > >I didn't win. The nuclear insanity is a huge loss, on more levels than >I can contemplate (financial, grid reliability, radioactive waste, >environmental damage and health issues in the mining, refining and fuel >production process, thermal pollution of Lake Ontario water, leading to >habitat change and more heat in the atmosphere to drive climate change >...). :-( And the politicos who voted for it live with their families within 50 miles of the new nuke site of course don't they. That would be a first. Definitely a huge loss. I hope it doesn't turn out that other countries have just been waiting for someone else to take the first step. Is it the first step? I lost track - one keeps hearing nukes-are-nice noises. >The clothesline thing was political legerdemain. I have referred to >clotheslines as "hybrid wind and solar powered clothes dryers", and it >has twigged the interest of a few people until they realized it's a >simple bit of suspended wire or cord, and not some Rube Goldberg >contraption. I expect the clothesline has been patented at some point, >and has long since expired. Otherwise, I'm sure there would be a >Microsoft version available (though I don't know how I'd reboot a >clothesline). LOL! Aarghh! - I really hate the idea of a Microsoft clothesline. However would they manage to make a clothesline work all wrong? But they'd manage. Best Keith > >> Guess I'll have to find >>> some new ways to subvert the power structure. >> >> :-) I'm sure you'll manage to dream something up. > >Seems likely. :-) > >However, for now I'm off to tilt at a windmill (figuratively, it's not >like I can have one here - might get fouled in the clothesline). >Speaking of which, I'd best go collect the hangings, as dark clouds are >rolling in. > >Darryl > >> >> Take care >> >> Best >> >> Keith >> >> >>> <snip text re: Bill Gates, Green Revolution, centralized solutions, etc >>> - no arguments here> >>> >>>> We have to do this stuff ourselves, local citizens of the global village. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Keith >>>> >>> <snip old message to save bandwidth> > > >-- >Darryl McMahon >Save water and your money. The Water Saver toilet fill diverter. >http://www.econogics.com/WaterSaver/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
