Hello,
I feel it would be a bad idea to quit silently. Probably, I should
explain this action for others (without "fair warings" and so on). This
thread - probably the best place, due to context.
I got several private messages about the "tone in pull requests" and so on.
Actually, besides the current example, also these:
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/issues/7971
https://github.com/sympy/sympy/pull/7356
(Perhaps, there are more, but I'm not informed of.)
While I'm ok when someone point on my flaws, errors and so on (sometimes
people
just have bad days, it happens) and I'll try to correct my behaviour
accordingly,
I think this should be done with several principles:
1) assume good faith
2) be fair, i.e. analyze the whole conversation, not
part of it or just single commentary (all above cases)
3) be helpful. For example, if you want to improve
something - just do it. You see bad answer - post good one; you
see unconstructive conversation - help people to reach a consensus.
4) please remember that all you assertions about
"the tone", kindness and so on - are more or less subjective.
I feel that these principles are violated here too often. Ondrej also said
me, that
we are loosing people due to the harsh atmosphere I created. If it's a
real issue (i.e.
there are such people), I would like to apologize to them personally and
I'll happy
to announce that I'm not a treat for the sympy community anymore.
Perhaps, it's my bad and my communication skills are too low for the sympy.
On another hand, if this is a potential loss - please remember, you are
loosing
people for a number of different reasons. For example, if the review is
very
polite, but will end with committing of the wrong and non-professional code
-
this is also bad. People will be disappointed. Also, should we "welcome
to comment on any issue or email thread" without adding some requirements
(see below what I assume from reviewers, for example)? Longer
conversation - harder for other reviewers. Being friendly, welcoming
and polite - not a real requirement here (in first - it's too subjective),
rather a sane suggestion. But if you prefer such "requirements" instead...
Well, perhaps, you guys should wipe out quote "talk is cheap, show me the
code"
from the instructions for newcomers. From the history of the thread in
subject and persons involved, it seems now clear that the sympy community
prefer talks. I don't
think this is a good direction for the project as a whole. For example, I
would like to assume, that every PR reviewer will at least read the workflow
instruction, PR content, relevant documentation and will actually run the
code.
It seems, this is not accepted as a sane assumption by the sympy community.
Then, I think that my involvement in the project was waste of my time and I
should stop one.
Just "being welcoming and polite" actually looks as a very secondary
goal. Primary one should be - create and save an alive, professional and
productive
community around the project. But for you it's not, for example you lost a
real and very
productive contributor (well, at least one I'm aware off) just due to the
license
change (only potential gain; I'm not sure you got any profit to the present
time) - is this ok? (I don't think so and "authors_skip" variable in the
bin/mailmap_update.py - seems for me as a shame for the project.)
Sorry for long message, but I think there is something to
think about. Esp. that most members of the sympy group are
inactive now (I hope, this not my bad only) and that the sympy is
just as "close to enter serious CAS market" as it was
in 2008 (when you lost Kirill).
On Friday, January 2, 2015 at 10:37:40 AM UTC+3, Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> Fair warning: If this kind of behaviour is considered acceptable by the
> project, I'm out of here. Everybody's chance to rid the SymPy project of
> that stubborn, nagging Toolforger me ;-)
Thanks to Joachim, who showed me the door. Really thanks, no
bad feelings from my side at all.
Thanks to all, thanks to all who helped me with patches, esp. to Chris and
Aaron.
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