Addendum: My personal mental definition of a “shop” is a “a place you can show up without appointment, pick from available wares, pay on exit, and directly take the thing you bought home”.
What they sell (e.g. clothes, groceries, only in bulk packaging) or if access is restricted (specific times, only certain group of people) are separate concerns and should be tagged separately. From: osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au [mailto:osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au] Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2018 17:07 To: 'Tag discussion, strategy and related tools' <email@example.com> Subject: Re: [Tagging] discrepancy in shop definition and "wholesale" value The term “Big-box store” is not one I’ve ever heard used in Australia, and is not something that I would immediately associated with something like Costco. Given that the existing tag is already in widespread (and largely correct) usage and possibly specifically supported by existing software, I don’t really see a good reason for changing it to something else just for the heck of it. I think all that should be needed is to amend the documentation to make it clear that it is only for places that are “Wholesale/warehouse club or cash and carry - a store that sells items in bulk” (I would leave out the “to retailers”, any access limitations should be described by different tags) and not “actual” wholesalers (which should use the wholesale=* tag), and then correct any possibly wrongly tagged data that already exist. Cheers, Thorsten From: Johnparis [mailto:ok...@johnfreed.com] Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2018 16:10 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:email@example.com> > Subject: Re: [Tagging] discrepancy in shop definition and "wholesale" value Must agree with Thorsten and Stefano. The proposal referenced by Martin is just that: a proposal. From 2011-12. Never approved. The wiki page (created 2015) makes clear that the actual key, in use, refers to shops like Costco, which btw is the same in the US as the Australian version. See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features (which alludes to the Costco-style shop). Perhaps the (never approved) proposal page should make clear that (a) it was not approved, (b) it is not in use. And (c) it should refer to the actual wiki page. Alternatively, this type of store is sometimes called a "big box" retailer in the US. I would not oppose a shop=big_box alternative to supplant shop=wholesale. Or even hypermarket (the French term is hypermarché) or superstore. But in any case there is always going to be some confusion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-box_store I would agree that a wholesaler's office and/or warehouse should not use this tag (unless of course the warehouse also sells on site to the general public or its membership, in which case it is indeed a shop). I glanced at the 1000 or so existing uses of the tag, and a large number seem to have names suggesting correct usage (Costco, Sam's Warehouse, xxx Cash & Carry, etc.) So it seems to me that the problem is not the tag, but rather the proposal page that Martin cited. On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:28 PM, <osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au <mailto:osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au> > wrote: Here in Australia, I would consider “Costco” to be a “shop”. And they name themselves as “Costco Wholesale”. While they do require a membership, that membership is open to anyone without restrictions. Except for the need of a membership (which they happily sell you for 60 bucks the first time you come buy) there is no appreciable difference between shopping at Costco or any other retailer. (And people use the term shopping or grocery shopping in relation to going to Costco.) I personally think that “shop=wholesale” is a reasonable tag for Costcos in Australia (and I think the same applies in the US, membership open to anyone without restrictions. Same for Sam’s Club and others I think). Cheers, Thorsten From: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com <mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2018 03:40 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:email@example.com> > Subject: Re: [Tagging] discrepancy in shop definition and "wholesale" value 2018-02-28 15:49 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes <p...@trigpoint.me.uk <mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk> >: Wholesale primarily sells to trade customers, rather than retail. Many will refuse to sell to normal retail customers. indeed. Now, this conflict doesn't seem to interest many people, besides you there was only one commenter here. Any more opinions how to handle it? Would we better "kick out" wholesale from shop or change the definition for shop? Cheers, Martin _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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