On 13/1/20 10:23 am, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
Paris is the capital of France because it has all the main government facilities: the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and most ministries.

Routes that are mapped in Openstreetmap need to be signed or marked in a visible way. Otherwise every Stava user will add their favorite training loop to the map as a running route or road cycling route.

I have had one mark 'their' training loops and commuting routes in as cycle lanes.. where no cycle lanes exist. Given the choice between that and a route entry I'd chose the route.


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:02 AM Florimond Berthoux <florimond.berth...@gmail.com <mailto:florimond.berth...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    Asking me how do I know that Eurovelo 3 is for tourism or bicycle
    trekking is like asking me how do I know that Paris is the capital
    of France.
    « Is there a sign saying that Paris is the capital of France? May
    be we should remove that tag, don't you think?... »

    You don't need sign post to have a route, do you have a sign post
    at the intersection of those routes ?
    I doubt that.

    This is how the Wiki define a route:
    « A *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or travel,
    often predetermined and publicized. Routes consist of paths taken
    repeatedly by people and vehicles: a ship on the North Atlantic
    route, a car on a numbered road, a bus on its route or a cyclist
    on a national route. »

    So to paraphrase this for road biking route :
    « A road bicycle *route* is a customary or regular line of passage
    or travel, often predetermined and publicized as such. Road
    bicycle routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by road cyclist. »

    And if you don't know then don't tag it and don't manage it.

    Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 23:35, Joseph Eisenberg
    <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> a
    écrit :
    > >  I am not against distinguishing more types of cycling routes,
    I am all for it, as long as it's verifyable, mappable with clear
    tagging, and manageable.
    > +1
    > I started using Openstreetmap because I wanted to add touring routes
    > and recreational bike routes in RideWithGPS and then found out that
    > http://ridewithgps.com uses Openstreetmap data which I could
    edit. And
    > I get to work and take kids to school and shop by bike - I haven't
    > owned a car for 9 years.
    > So I would love to have more information about what streets and
    > are best for getting from point A to B, and which ones are nice for
    > training rides and which ones are fun for tours.
    > But tags have to be verifiable: if the next mapper can't confirm
    > a tag as right, the data in Openstreetmap will not be maintained
    > properly. Subjective tags cannot work.
    > I have seen this happen: before I mapped here, I used to try to
    > improve the bike routes in Portland Oregon for Google Maps. But
    > there was no definition of a "preferred" bicycle street, and it was
    > hard to delete a preferred route once it was added, the bike
    layer was
    > full of disconnected segments. Some were from old city maps of bike
    > routes, some were based on the personal preference of the
    mapper, and
    > some were actually signed or marked on the ground, but you couldn't
    > tell them apart.
    > If there is a sign or marking that specifies that a certain route is
    > designed for mountain bikes or for bike racing, then sure, you
    can tag
    > that. But most bike routes do not have anything to specify that they
    > are more for commuting or more for recreation, and in that case we
    > can't tag the distinction.
    > Fortunately, database users (like routing applications) can look at
    > other Openstreetmap data, like surface=* tags on ways, and external
    > data like elevation models, to determine if a route is a difficult
    > single-track trail through the hills versus a flat paved path
    along a
    > canal, and use this to help route cyclists appropriately.
    > - Joseph Eisenberg

-- Florimond Berthoux

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