Does this sound sensible? Both in its usability in editing and machine readibility?
place=village (or what happens to suit that place) and place:ph=barangay On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I checked the "legal" definition of a "city" in the UK and it is not based > on population size. So I'm convinced that "place=city" meaning a settlement > with 100,000+ residents is not a UK-centric thing. > > However, I don't think this matches how Philippine cities and municipalities > are tagged in OSM. If it's a legal city, it gets "place=city" and > "place=town" if a municipality. Legally, a city needs to have a population > of at least 150,000 (based on the 1991 Local Government Code) so I'm > confident that all cities in the Philippines correctly get the "place=city" > tag. However, there are many municipalities that have more than 100,000 > residents. For example, Dasmarinas, Cavite has a population of 500,000+. > > Here's a possible solution: can the place tag get more than 1 value > separated by commas? So maybe we can tag Dasmarinas with > "place=city,ph-municipality". We could have Philippine-specific values: > "ph-city", "ph-municipality", and "ph-barangay" and retain "city", "town", > and "village" for international compatibility. > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 4:15 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> Ok I also checked the discussion over there @nabble.com. >> There is a valid point in the concern that the map becomes unmanagable as >> a world map if things become tooo localized. >> I mean in fact, if now the Swedes tag their roads as "väg=x" (saying that >> the Swedish road claissificationn system was totally different from the GB >> one), then tomorrow the Germans come and say "we dont have motorways here, >> we only have Autobahn" .... and so on and so on. At the end of the day you >> need a dedicated renderer for each country and language. (And hell, we have >> 193 countries and thousands of languages on this planet.) >> On the other hand it is also a valid point not to loose localized >> information due to a "too British" classification of everything. >> >> So my solution - in fact for the global issue in the big picture - would >> be to introduce something like a "nat_place=x" or "loc_place=x" tag, which >> may be used for a local definition IN ADDITION to the global "place=x" tag, >> which remains in the (rather British) numerus clausus we have. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers >> Soren >> >> >> >> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> > Von: "Ian Haylock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Gesendet: 25.11.08 00:43:35 >> > An: Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > CC: [email protected] >> > Betreff: Re: [talk-ph] Various >> >> > >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > But barangays are not exactly villages, which is unlike Philippine >> > municipalities that are acknowledged equivalent to towns. >> > >> > >> > The Place= tag is used to denote the population size of a place, not >> > whether a place is actually a city, town, village etc. >> > >> > >> > So someone listing all the world's "villages" would get inaccurate >> > data. Besides, I personally find very little use for a list of all >> > the world's villages for whatever analysis that list would be needed >> > for, unlike say, a list of all cities. >> > >> > That was a "Hypothetical" example. >> > >> > A non Hypothetical example (though not country specific) would be the >> > change from highway=gate to barrier=gate. Previously navigation S/W >> > only had to search for highway=gate to find roads to ignore. Now it >> > has to search for both, twice as much work for the same result. >> > >> > (Hmmm, maybe the "place=x" tags should also be accompanied with the " >> > admin_level=n" tags especially if the place matches the admin_level? >> > Seems like a good idea, don't you think?) >> > >> > Now that gets a +1 from me :-) >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Ian Haylock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > Sorry, >> > >> > -1 from me. >> > >> > I think using country specific tags like "barangay" will cause >> > problems with people who use the data. >> > >> > As a hypothetical example, suppose someone wanted to list all the >> > villages in the osm database. If all the different countries used a >> > different name for village, such a simple task would become a pain in >> > the A**. >> > >> > Cheers, Ian >> > >> > --- On *Mon, 24/11/08, *maning * sambale *<[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > com> wrote: >> > From: maning sambale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Various >> > To: "Eugene Alvin Villar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Cc: [email protected] >> > Date: Monday, 24 November, 2008, 8:58 AM >> > >> > >> > >> > +1 for me. That would be fairly easy for me to >> > change the >> > place=village to place=barangay. But only for the ones I added. If >> > others would allow me to do so for them, I'll do it. >> > >> > What about the others? Any opinion on this? >> > >> > cheers, >> > maning >> > >> > >> > On 11/24/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > Ok then. I'm all for tagging barangay center nodes with >> > place=barangay. We >> > > can just ask the renderers to place a special code to render >> > >> > place=barangay >> > > same as place=village. >> > > >> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:29 PM, maning sambale >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> Hi, >> > >> >> > >> I am sending a discussion we (me and IanHaylock) had before with >> > Mike >> > >> Collinson (no talk-ph at that time) on tagging Barangays this in >> > the >> > >> context of when we are planning to import the GNS data. >> > >> > >> >> > >> For your comments >> > >> ======= >> > >> Thanks for all the >> > input. Here is a modified version of the script >> > >> with PPL mapping to village not town. As is, it also reads the >> > entire >> > >> rp.txt file but only outputs DCG=ADM2 POIs. The resulting file, >> > also >> > >> attached is exactly the same as the one you sent me but has an >> > >> > >> addition 'is_in:state=' tag. I am very keen to get lots of >> > 'is_in' >> > >> tags into the OSM database as it will make future searching much >> > >> easier. For example, if there is a critical mass of entries for >> > >> > >> Aurora Province spread across the province, it will be possible to >> > >> work out the approximate bounds of the province and limit searches >> > >> there. That removes the need to have exact boundary data. >> > >> > >> >> > >> Do upload it if you think it is ready. >> > >> >> > >> On the issue of PPL = village or barangay or locality, these are my >> > >> thoughts. >> > >> >> > >> I suggest >> > we definitely do not use 'locality', that is really >> > meant >> > >> for place names that do not coincide with any (current) population >> > >> centre. >> > >> >> > >> place=village >> > >> >> > >> > >> Plus: Works worldwide. Minus: Not strictly valid in a Philippine >> > context. >> > >> >> > >> place=barangay >> > >> >> > >> We'd need to get the OSMarender and Mapnik guys to add a render >> > >> > rule >> > >> for this. We could also ask for it to be added as a Map Features >> > >> value, but that is not strictly necessary. I'd guess the easiest >> > >> request would be to say, "please render this exactly the same as >> > >> > >> place=village"? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> If I was explaining what Barangay means, does this sound right? :- >> > >> >> > >> place=barangay is specifically for Philippine use, though may be >> > >> > >> applicable in other parts of the world like South America. At >> > an >> > >> administrative level, a Province (= a state) is divided into >> > >> muncipalities. Each municipality is controlled by a local council >> > and >> > >> has a mayor. A municipality is split into barangays[1], headed by >> > >> > >> Barangay captains. In rural areas, these equate to villages. In >> > urban >> > >> areas, these equate to suburbs often highly distinguishable on the >> > >> basis of social class. A rural muncipality, e.g. Donsol[2], may >> > >> > >> therefore have a town, Donsol, split into 3 or 4 barangays and >> > then to >> > >> It is important to mark them on OSM maps because they are used >> > >> extensively in every day navigation, information, politics etc. >> > They >> > >> > >> almost invariable equate to an obvious population centre (unlike >> > >> European wards). Street signs often show which barangay they are >> > in. >> > >> Jeepneys and buses often show a barangays as >> > destinations. >> > >> >> > >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barangay >> > >> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donsol >> > >> > >> ============== >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On 11/22/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Zoren, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:12 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > There's no discussion yet regarding barangays. I >> > >> > prefer leaving out >> > >> >> > the "Barangay" part of the name (unless >> > it's numeric like "Barangay >> > >> >> > 30"). >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I was just about to send a second mail about that, as I >> > >> > realized that >> > >> >> at >> > >> >> certain zoom levels you can hardly see the map anymore >> > because of all >> > >> the >> > >> >> Brgy. names, or hardly see certain Brgy >> > names because of the >> > other Brgy >> > >> >> names ;). >> > >> >> I guess the Brgy concept is a special Pinoy one. This is why >> > the >> > >> renderes >> > >> >> are not designed for such a high density of area names >> > >> > (especially with >> > >> >> regard to font sizes) . To ease this problem I highly >> > endorse Seav's >> > >> >> suggestion to omit redundant words "Barangay", >> > "Brgy."(anyway for being >> > >> > >> an >> > >> >> abbreviation), "Village", >> > "Subdivision"etc...; unless it is really part >> > >> of >> > >> >> the name as in "Barangay 30". >> > >> >> We should even make this a general national convention for >> > >> > OSM >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Regarding this, do not be too conscious of the rendering >> > problems. Try >> > >> not >> > >> > to "fix" the data just so it would render pretty. The >> > >> > important thing >> > is >> > >> to >> > >> > do the data right and just leave the renderers (Mapnik, >> > Osmarender, >> > >> > etc.) >> > >> to >> > >> > decide how to best present the data. >> > >> > >> > >> > Eugene / seav >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> |---------|-------------------------------------------------------- >> > --| >> > >> > >> | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." >> > -Yoda | >> > >> | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea >> > of all" -N.Branden| >> > >> | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ >> > >> > | >> > >> | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | >> > >> | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | >> > >> > >> |---------|-------------------------------------------------------- >> > --| >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- >> > > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| >> > | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda >> > >> > | >> > | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of >> > all" -N.Branden| >> > | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | >> > >> > | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | >> > | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | >> > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > talk-ph mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > talk-ph mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ talk-ph mailing list >> > [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/ >> > >> > talk-ph >> >> > > > > -- > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com > > _______________________________________________ > talk-ph mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda | | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| _______________________________________________ talk-ph mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
