I checked the "legal" definition of a "city" in the UK and it is not based on population size. So I'm convinced that "place=city" meaning a settlement with 100,000+ residents is not a UK-centric thing.
However, I don't think this matches how Philippine cities and municipalities are tagged in OSM. If it's a legal city, it gets "place=city" and "place=town" if a municipality. Legally, a city needs to have a population of at least 150,000 (based on the 1991 Local Government Code) so I'm confident that all cities in the Philippines correctly get the "place=city" tag. However, there are many municipalities that have more than 100,000 residents. For example, Dasmarinas, Cavite has a population of 500,000+. Here's a possible solution: can the place tag get more than 1 value separated by commas? So maybe we can tag Dasmarinas with "place=city,ph-municipality". We could have Philippine-specific values: "ph-city", "ph-municipality", and "ph-barangay" and retain "city", "town", and "village" for international compatibility. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 4:15 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Ok I also checked the discussion over there @nabble.com. > There is a valid point in the concern that the map becomes unmanagable as a > world map if things become tooo localized. > I mean in fact, if now the Swedes tag their roads as "väg=x" (saying that > the Swedish road claissificationn system was totally different from the GB > one), then tomorrow the Germans come and say "we dont have motorways here, > we only have Autobahn" .... and so on and so on. At the end of the day you > need a dedicated renderer for each country and language. (And hell, we have > 193 countries and thousands of languages on this planet.) > On the other hand it is also a valid point not to loose localized > information due to a "too British" classification of everything. > > So my solution - in fact for the global issue in the big picture - would be > to introduce something like a "nat_place=x" or "loc_place=x" tag, which may > be used for a local definition IN ADDITION to the global "place=x" tag, > which remains in the (rather British) numerus clausus we have. > > What do you think? > > Cheers > Soren > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: "Ian Haylock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Gesendet: 25.11.08 00:43:35 > > An: Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > CC: [email protected] > > Betreff: Re: [talk-ph] Various > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > But barangays are not exactly villages, which is unlike Philippine > > municipalities that are acknowledged equivalent to towns. > > > > > > The Place= tag is used to denote the population size of a place, not > > whether a place is actually a city, town, village etc. > > > > > > So someone listing all the world's "villages" would get inaccurate > > data. Besides, I personally find very little use for a list of all > > the world's villages for whatever analysis that list would be needed > > for, unlike say, a list of all cities. > > > > That was a "Hypothetical" example. > > > > A non Hypothetical example (though not country specific) would be the > > change from highway=gate to barrier=gate. Previously navigation S/W > > only had to search for highway=gate to find roads to ignore. Now it > > has to search for both, twice as much work for the same result. > > > > (Hmmm, maybe the "place=x" tags should also be accompanied with the " > > admin_level=n" tags especially if the place matches the admin_level? > > Seems like a good idea, don't you think?) > > > > Now that gets a +1 from me :-) > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Ian Haylock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, > > > > -1 from me. > > > > I think using country specific tags like "barangay" will cause > > problems with people who use the data. > > > > As a hypothetical example, suppose someone wanted to list all the > > villages in the osm database. If all the different countries used a > > different name for village, such a simple task would become a pain in > > the A**. > > > > Cheers, Ian > > > > --- On *Mon, 24/11/08, *maning * sambale *<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > com> wrote: > > From: maning sambale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Various > > To: "Eugene Alvin Villar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: [email protected] > > Date: Monday, 24 November, 2008, 8:58 AM > > > > > > > > +1 for me. That would be fairly easy for me to > > change the > > place=village to place=barangay. But only for the ones I added. If > > others would allow me to do so for them, I'll do it. > > > > What about the others? Any opinion on this? > > > > cheers, > > maning > > > > > > On 11/24/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok then. I'm all for tagging barangay center nodes with > > place=barangay. We > > > can just ask the renderers to place a special code to render > > > > place=barangay > > > same as place=village. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:29 PM, maning sambale > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> I am sending a discussion we (me and IanHaylock) had before with > > Mike > > >> Collinson (no talk-ph at that time) on tagging Barangays this in > > the > > >> context of when we are planning to import the GNS data. > > > > >> > > >> For your comments > > >> ======= > > >> Thanks for all the > > input. Here is a modified version of the script > > >> with PPL mapping to village not town. As is, it also reads the > > entire > > >> rp.txt file but only outputs DCG=ADM2 POIs. The resulting file, > > also > > >> attached is exactly the same as the one you sent me but has an > > > > >> addition 'is_in:state=' tag. I am very keen to get lots of > > 'is_in' > > >> tags into the OSM database as it will make future searching much > > >> easier. For example, if there is a critical mass of entries for > > > > >> Aurora Province spread across the province, it will be possible to > > >> work out the approximate bounds of the province and limit searches > > >> there. That removes the need to have exact boundary data. > > > > >> > > >> Do upload it if you think it is ready. > > >> > > >> On the issue of PPL = village or barangay or locality, these are my > > >> thoughts. > > >> > > >> I suggest > > we definitely do not use 'locality', that is really > > meant > > >> for place names that do not coincide with any (current) population > > >> centre. > > >> > > >> place=village > > >> > > > > >> Plus: Works worldwide. Minus: Not strictly valid in a Philippine > > context. > > >> > > >> place=barangay > > >> > > >> We'd need to get the OSMarender and Mapnik guys to add a render > > > > rule > > >> for this. We could also ask for it to be added as a Map Features > > >> value, but that is not strictly necessary. I'd guess the easiest > > >> request would be to say, "please render this exactly the same as > > > > >> place=village"? > > >> > > >> > > >> If I was explaining what Barangay means, does this sound right? :- > > >> > > >> place=barangay is specifically for Philippine use, though may be > > > > >> applicable in other parts of the world like South America. At > > an > > >> administrative level, a Province (= a state) is divided into > > >> muncipalities. Each municipality is controlled by a local council > > and > > >> has a mayor. A municipality is split into barangays[1], headed by > > > > >> Barangay captains. In rural areas, these equate to villages. In > > urban > > >> areas, these equate to suburbs often highly distinguishable on the > > >> basis of social class. A rural muncipality, e.g. Donsol[2], may > > > > >> therefore have a town, Donsol, split into 3 or 4 barangays and > > then to > > >> It is important to mark them on OSM maps because they are used > > >> extensively in every day navigation, information, politics etc. > > They > > > > >> almost invariable equate to an obvious population centre (unlike > > >> European wards). Street signs often show which barangay they are > > in. > > >> Jeepneys and buses often show a barangays as > > destinations. > > >> > > >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barangay > > >> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donsol > > > > >> ============== > > >> > > >> > > >> On 11/22/08, Eugene Alvin Villar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > Hi Zoren, > > >> > > > > > >> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:12 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > There's no discussion yet regarding barangays. I > > > > prefer leaving out > > >> >> > the "Barangay" part of the name (unless > > it's numeric like "Barangay > > >> >> > 30"). > > >> >> > > >> >> I was just about to send a second mail about that, as I > > > > realized that > > >> >> at > > >> >> certain zoom levels you can hardly see the map anymore > > because of all > > >> the > > >> >> Brgy. names, or hardly see certain Brgy > > names because of the > > other Brgy > > >> >> names ;). > > >> >> I guess the Brgy concept is a special Pinoy one. This is why > > the > > >> renderes > > >> >> are not designed for such a high density of area names > > > > (especially with > > >> >> regard to font sizes) . To ease this problem I highly > > endorse Seav's > > >> >> suggestion to omit redundant words "Barangay", > > "Brgy."(anyway for being > > > > >> an > > >> >> abbreviation), "Village", > > "Subdivision"etc...; unless it is really part > > >> of > > >> >> the name as in "Barangay 30". > > >> >> We should even make this a general national convention for > > > > OSM > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > Regarding this, do not be too conscious of the rendering > > problems. Try > > >> not > > >> > to "fix" the data just so it would render pretty. The > > > > important thing > > is > > >> to > > >> > do the data right and just leave the renderers (Mapnik, > > Osmarender, > > >> > etc.) > > >> to > > >> > decide how to best present the data. > > >> > > > >> > Eugene / seav > > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> |---------|-------------------------------------------------------- > > --| > > > > >> | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." > > -Yoda | > > >> | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea > > of all" -N.Branden| > > >> | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ > > > > | > > >> | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | > > >> | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | > > > > >> |---------|-------------------------------------------------------- > > --| > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| > > | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda > > > > | > > | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of > > all" -N.Branden| > > | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | > > > > | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | > > | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | > > |---------|----------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > talk-ph mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > talk-ph mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com > > > > _______________________________________________ talk-ph mailing list > > [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/ > > > > talk-ph > > > -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
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