TP>> do you EVER choose "typical installation"?
MDP> Absolutely never. What's your point?
My point was the fact that the people I was talking to took issue with
the fact that I stated these people were atypical Windows users. I
was pointing out that I was, indeed, dead-on.
TP>> Plain-text formatting? That's ridiculous.
MDP> My example was inane, I accept that. I stole it. From Steve Lamb. The
MDP> fact that I'm trying to get over to you is that TB's virtual space
MDP> works well for me and (I believe) others. "Ridiculous"? Is that fair?
Ridiculous is fair insofar as the example was made.
I never said that virtual space didn't work for you. Never said it
didn't work for others. Did mean to imply that not only does it seem
a strange choice as a default, it also seems to be a strange choice
with no alternative.
TP>> Except that I don't want to fire up an external editor. I want to
TP>> use the internal one.
MDP> Not from what you are saying about the way it works. You don't
MDP> like the virtual space technology it uses and decry as
MDP> "ridiculous" the suggestion that it has any use. At least Steve
MDP> objects to it from the honest viewpoint that he would rather use
MDP> an external editor than compromise the features that other enjoy
MDP> in it.
I don't like virtual space. I don't think it's ridiculous. In fact,
quite the opposite; it took me a while to get used to programming
without it. However, since I did, I prefer the non-virtual option.
Yes, I'm an old Borland user, having had my paws on Turbo C 1 and 2.
If such a change would compromise the integrity of the mailer, yeah,
I'd vote against it to. However, I find that possibility highly
unlikely, and if it indeed happened, I'd have to raise real questions
as to the integrity of the package as a whole.
TP>> Power. You keep implying that useless features are powerful.
MDP> Useless to you, perhaps.
"Formatted text" is useless to me. It also, IMO, has no place in
email.
MDP> IMHO you haven't even started trying to use it. There have been
MDP> numerous discussions and examples in this list over the time its'
MDP> been going of just how useful the TB editor's virtual space,
MDP> columnar capabilities and creative use of TAB can be.
Well, I don't know how one can have an opinion of someone else's
experience, but I'll lay it down for you.
I started programming 18 years ago. All of the editors I used did,
indeed, have what we could call virtual space.
Six or seven years ago I was introduced emacs. Virtual space wasn't
on by default. I really don't even know for sure if it can do it in
an "out-of-the-box" kind of way.
I know what I like. "Starting to try to use something" is almost 20
years old. At what point can I claim that I know what it's all about?
MDP> I don't have the wit nor energy to recall them all right now for
MDP> what is clearly a closed discussion at your end.
I've seen one example of virtual space.
Now, I conceed one point: If columnar pasting gets all screwed up
without virtual space, well, I'd rather not take the MS approach and
screw up the columns (e.g. DevStudio in CUA mode).
TP>> What I want is an editor that behaves the way I want it to. Don't
TP>> you?
MDP> Yes, of course I do. And I have it. I just don't want it messed up.
MDP> I've already said, if the NoVirtualSpace can be made optional *easily*
MDP> and without adding needless bloat, then I don't see the harm...
We are in complete agreement then. I don't see the sense in arguing
about it...
MDP> The only argument against that is one that has also been run here
MDP> about the adding of yet-another-darn-switch for yet-another-
MDP> flavour-of whatever else it is that has nothing at all to do with
MDP> how well TB handles email.
If something is trying to be a full-fledged email solution, then it
should be configurable to the user's content.
If they're not developing an editor they should stop right now.
It seems silly to do something part way, as it only alienates
potential users. If that's what the developers and users of The Bat!
want, that's fine by me. I'll probably keep using it regardless, if I
can come to learn the arcane keystrokes... Virtual space isn't THAT
terrible, I just don't like it, and (I've said this before) coupled
with the keymap, the editor is VERY difficult for me to use.
So, then, on the arguement that you cite and seem to support, what are
your thoughts of adding NNTP support to The Bat!? Certainly that
seems like a slightly larger proposition than a few checkboxes in the
Editor Setup window... Honestly, if it goes in and sucks, The Bat! is
off of my computer. I already have a mail/news solution that I only
use half of; I don't need two packages that do essentially the same
thing and only use parts of each...
-tom!
--
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.
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