Those icicles looked like what I saw in August, and it wasn't a false alarm
-- it was once per minute. But it is easy to find false correlations,
particularly when trying to investigate very short intervals.

The game is afoot.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:41 AM Nathan Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ugh, this is what I get for jumping to conclusions and running my mouth
> off before doing just the slightest bit of investigation.
>
>
>
> I think it might somehow just be the tool I'm using to do the graphing.
> If I watch one of the active bandwidth tests closely while also watching
> the graph of the eNB that UE is attached to, I don't (always) see the same
> dips.
>
>
>
> Sooo, false alarm.  Possibly.  I'll keep watching things and report back.
>
>
>
> If it's just a graphing error/anomaly, not sure what the problem would be
> here.  Both the tool and the switch that the eNBs are plugged into
> supposedly support SNMP v2c, so we shouldn't be overrunning a 32-bit
> integer.
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:18 AM
>
>
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "Nathan Anderson" <[email protected]>
>
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>
> Sent: 2/16/2017 4:24:00 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Jeremy mentioned his periodic traffic dips to me recently off-list.  I
> haven't seen anything exactly like what either of you two are talking
> about, but...attached is an interesting screenshot I just took of downlink
> usage on 3 separate eNBs on our network, each of which I am currently
> saturating (off-hours) with MT download bandwidth test (occurring behind 1
> UE on each sector, and each UE has been temporarily granted 100Mbit
> downlink AMBR).
>
>
>
> Notice the little icicle-like formations?  Also notice how they seem to be
> fairly regular, and also seem to occur at the exact same interval on every
> sector, but don't perfectly line up with each other?
>
>
>
> WTF is *that* about?
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Jeremy Austin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 8:44 PM
> *To:* Adam Moffett; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Adam, I'm going to assume that no other traffic on the same equipment
> (sans EPC and ENB) show this periodicity?
>
>
>
> I have seen something in the same ballpark, but not identical, since
> August. I have been planning to post it to the list to get more eyes on it
> (after letting Telrad have some time to look at it first).
>
>
>
> Just wanted to check that you had isolated the behavior entirely to LTE,
> and not routers/backhauls/switches.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:15 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Weird.  Maybe overflow from the dedicated bearer falls into the default
> bearer?  I also have to wonder if it's a bug in the UE.  It seems like it
> must fall on the UE to ultimately enforce the rate limit.
>
>
>
> In our uplink throughput issue, I might have tripped over something of
> interest.  I originally reported to Telrad that I was getting about half of
> what I expect for UL throughput.  Now I think we actually do get the
> expected throughput, but only for a moment.  Five seconds later there's
> next to nothing, then 5 seconds later back to full speed, and so on.  I see
> it when looking at the realtime traffic display on our switch port, but on
> your typical chart with a 5 minute average it just looks like you're
> getting half speed.
>
>
>
> Weird thing is that it's not happening all the time.  I started iPerf on 6
> UE at one site at 4am the other day and when looking at traffic at the
> switch port I saw a perfect sine wave with 10 seconds peak to peak.  Later
> that day I repeated the test to show one of my co-workers and the damn
> thing wouldn't do it.
>
>
>
> I don't know what to make of it yet.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "Nathan Anderson" <[email protected]>
>
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "'Adam Moffett'" <
> [email protected]>
>
> Sent: 2/10/2017 3:59:40 PM
>
> Subject: RE: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> So last night, I re-ran this test again, and captured the whole thing not
> just at the edge of the LTE network coming out of the EPC, but between the
> EPC and eNB, so that I could grab the user traffic together with the
> encapsulating GTP headers.
>
>
>
> What I found was that when traffic comes from behind the UE with the
> proper DSCP value set, it DOES get transmitted by the UE on the dedicated
> bearer, but the MBR is still not being enforced.  I had a 10Mbit/s UL AMBR
> configured and a 256Kbit/s UL MBR set on the dedicated bearer, and when I
> ran an upload test on the dedicated bearer, it hit 10 megs.  (Download test
> on the dedicated bearer was limited to the configured 256Kbit/s DL MBR.)
>
>
>
> What makes this so bizarre is that even if there is a bug that causes the
> system (which part?) to not enforce the configured rate limit for the
> dedicated bearer on the uplink, the UE AMBR should not be taken into
> account for GBR bearers, as discussed before.  But it sure seems like what
> is happening is that whatever is supposed to be policing the uplink is
> mistakenly enforcing the UE UL AMBR on the dedicated bearer instead of the
> UL MBR.
>
>
>
> Ticket opened with Telrad.
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Nathan Anderson
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 3:56 PM
>
>
> *To:* 'Adam Moffett'; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Then maybe the problem is not that the properly-marked upload traffic
> isn't getting transmitted on the right bearer, but rather that the UL
> GBR/MBR are not being enforced?
>
>
>
> Whose responsibility is enforcement of bitrates on uplink?  The UE's?  The
> eNB?  The EPC?  A little of columns A, B, and C?
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 2:50 PM
>
>
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Somewhere there must be traffic counters for each QCI, or for individual
> bearers, or something.  Without seeing them it's hard to say for sure.
>
>
>
> On a busy eNB (50+ UE), I tried changing the mgmt DSCP value on an
> individual UE from 6 to 5 and testing before and after.
>
>
>
> With the UE set to DSCP 5 for mgmt, I get 0.1 mbps upload and 7% packet
> loss (500 byte pings, 0.1 second interval)
>
> On DSCP 6 I get 0.5mbps and 0% packet loss.
>
>
>
> That's not scientific rigor, but it seems like it's working.
>
>
>
> On a lighter loaded eNB I was actually getting slightly more UL throughput
> with the UE Mgmt DSCP set to 5.  I don't know why.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "Nathan Anderson" <[email protected]>
>
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "'Adam Moffett'" <
> [email protected]>
>
> Sent: 2/6/2017 5:11:49 PM
>
> Subject: RE: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> ...also, I still remain unconvinced that the UEs are transmitting any
> upload traffic -- even when properly marked with the right DSCP -- on the
> dedicated bearer.  Until it is proven beyond a doubt that this works,
> testing upload capacity using dedicated bearers is probably a waste of time
> because it isn't doing what you think it is doing.
>
>
>
> I have tested both CPE7000 and CPE8000 at this point, and have the same
> issue on both, so I don't think it is a CPE firmware bug (that would be a
> freaky coincidence, given that both CPEs are contract-manufactured by
> different companies).  So I don't know if this is me being stupid and not
> configuring my EPCs correctly, or what.  But something is not working here.
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Nathan Anderson
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 2:06 PM
> *To:* 'Adam Moffett'; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> Something that I learned that I should point out:
>
>
>
> A dedicated bearer with a higher priority should take precedence over
> default bearer traffic, yes.  But from what I can tell, LTE spec. does not
> have a way of putting a total speed cap on the entire UE across any and all
> bearers.  The UE AMBRs only restrict all non-GBR bearers (default or not,
> even across multiple APNs) but does NOT take into account GBR bearers, and
> QCI 1 is GBR.
>
>
>
> What this means is that, for example, if you have a default bearer with
> QCI 6, and dedicated bearer with QCI 1, and the UE DL and UL AMBRs are set
> to 10 and 1 Mbit/s respectively, and your dedicated bearer's MBRs are set
> to 5 and 0.5 (half of the UE AMBRs, for the sake of this example), you
> haven't actually set up things such that up to half of the subscriber's
> AMBRs are given priority on the dedicated bearer, leaving that user half of
> his total bandwidth if you end up filling the dedicated bearer up to its
> MBR in both directions.  No, instead because the GBR QCIs are not accounted
> for within the AMBR, the user can move up to 5x0.5 on the dedicated bearer
> and *simultaneously* also move up to 10x1 (assuming there is enough sector
> capacity at the time) on the default bearer.
>
>
>
> Maybe in some cases, this is desireable.  If you use QCI 1 for VoIP, for
> example, then you are effectively providing the customer with a separate
> channel for their voice calls that does not dip into their configured speed
> package, but is instead additive.  But it is something to keep in mind as
> you are planning and building your network as well as running tests.
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 1:48 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
> The EPC and most of the eNB are running the latest general release
> available on Zendesk.
>
> A couple of eNB are running some kind of maintenance release that support
> wanted us to try.
>
>
>
> I'm making sure to run iPerf on the dedicated bearer to eliminate other
> user traffic from weaker UE as a factor.  At QCI 1 it should take
> precedence over the default bearer traffic.
>
>
>
> I would definitely take the time to set one up, not necessarily for this
> purpose, but rather to ensure you always have access to your UE.  If the
> default bearer is hosed with a torrent and you don't have a dedicated
> bearer for management access then you can be completely locked out of the
> unit.  Monitoring, management access, and firmware updates all work more
> reliably with the dedicated bearer and I'd strongly recommend it.  There's
> a knowledge base article in Zendesk about it.  Use DSCP 6 because that's
> tagged by default in the UE.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "Jeremy Austin" <[email protected]>
>
> To: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>
> Sent: 2/6/2017 4:30:43 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Telrad] Uplink throughput again
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Adam Moffett <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Can somebody tell me if they're getting expected uplink throughput?
>
>
>
>
> What ENB and EPC revisions are you at, Adam?
>
>
>
> We're investigating this same issue ourselves, although we haven't tried a
> dedicated bearer.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeremy Austin
>
>
>
> (907) 895-2311
>
> (907) 803-5422
>
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Heritage NetWorks
>
> Whitestone Power & Communications
>
> Vertical Broadband, LLC
>
>
>
> Schedule a meeting: http://doodle.com/jermudgeon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Telrad mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/telrad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Telrad mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/telrad
>
_______________________________________________
Telrad mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/telrad

Reply via email to