One of the dilemma's in my field is that old chestnut "that which can be measured may not be valuable, and that which is valuable may not be measurable."
The notion of measurement as FEEDBACK (as Wheatley) is key - the measures that we are forced to use in Psychiatry are nearly always rather crude - and are often proxies for other variables - perhaps ones that we do not yet know about, and yet they do give a sense of feedback to the practitioner rand the client "is what we are doing here actually making a difference that we can value?" The measures that we use are really only useful once thousnads of scores have been aggregated and compared to other more-or-less validated scales, or to a clinician's judgement (which is really just another form of measurement: I compare a young person to the hundreds or thousands I havve seen with somewhat similar presentations. One of the joys of psychiatry is the fuzziness of it - plenty of room for art alongside the science, but I do thik that if we can get this manual working we will be able to move things along a bit - at present the great dilemma is "does what that person says is therapy-X actually look and work the same as my version of therapy-X?" this is especially so when we are conducting therapy outside of the relatively controlled environment of the consulting room On a bleaker note, we have to justify the money that our interventions cost, by showing the funders that something that seems valuable is changing! All the best, Dickon On Apr 25, 4:54 pm, jnthnlstr <[email protected]> wrote: > Alex, > > I found that article by Margaret Wheatley about measurement very > enjoyable reading. Thanks for sharing. > > http://www.margaretwheatley.com/articles/whymeasure.html > > J. > > On Apr 22, 9:00 am, alex <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Dickton, > > > RE: the capacity to date and save the results so that a score at time > > A can then be compared to one done later at Time B. > > > I'm also interested in this: the biggest survey project I have on is > > about surveying organisations. I think it could be done by adding date > > data to the questions and generate them differently each time the > > questionnaire is filled in. Its going to be some time before I start > > thinking about this though. I have an 'IT guardian' helping me to > > 'deliver' using a method called DSDM [1] which makes the easily > > distracted 'developer' (me) focus on user interface first. I think > > that once I am usingTiddlyWebthat I will be ready to add this > > functionality. Collecting andsavingthe data and the project being > > fully adopted would require some data storage expert's input. They who > > still come from the nations that measure are now consumed by Micosoft > > Excel. [2] > > > Re: Wilfred Bion , unconscious links and neuroscience: *integrative* > > tool. > > > Dickton said: > > There is a seminal paper (1959) in the field of psychoanalysis by a > > British analyst called Wilfred Bion titled "Attacks on Linking", and > > to summarise this very complex and dense piece of writing, he is > > saying that unconscious processes (which might be construed as havinga > > "vested interest" in remaining unconscious) "conspire" to keep apart > > material that could and probably "should" be linked in the mind [3] > > > "A piece of research about to be published in the Journal of Cognitive > > Neuroscience, by Joydeep Bhattacharya at Goldsmiths’ College in London > > and Bhavin Sheth at the University of Houston, in Texas, suggests that > > although people are not consciously aware of it, their brains have to > > be in a certain state for an insight to take place. Moreover, that > > state can be detected electrically several seconds in advance of the > > “aha!” moment itself." [4] > > > Continuing the conversation about linking about "abstract notions such > > as "What, precisely (semantically and pragmatically, that is), is a > > link, and a tag?" and "what does non-linearity offer to the reader and > > writer that more conventional linear text forms lack?" [3] > > > I have been thinking about linking but mostly through the lens of > > cybernetics and systems. Ross Ashby, Heinz von Forester, Maturana [5] > > I am not thinking too hard about it: perhaps my mind has a > > subconscious reason for this, by the conscious reason is that I don't > > want to end up blowing a gasket. > > > Alex > > > [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Systems_Development_Method > > [2]http://www.margaretwheatley.com/articles/whymeasure.html > > [3] Bevington, D., Forms from Tiddlers - Applied TW's "Vs." TW > > Development - TiddlyWiki | Google Groups. Available > > at:http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki/msg/ad5f40b61088e13d > > [Accessed April 22, 2009]. > > [4] Unconscious thought precedes conscious: Incognito. The Economist. > > Available > > at:http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13489722 > > [Accessed April 21, 2009]. > > [5] Von Foerster, H., 1987. Understanding computers and cognition: A > > new foundation of design : Terry Winograd and Fernando Flores Norwood, > > NJ: Ablex Publishing Corporation, 1986, 207 pages, $24.95. > > Technological Forecasting and Social Change, 32(3), 311-318. > > > On Apr 22, 1:05 am,dickon<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Thanks again Alex. Will try to look at these two ways of doing > > > forms. Not sure I am the one to make a decision about which way is > > > the best way to head with a view to getting as much fucntionality oput > > > of these questionnaires as possible. > > > > The other function I would really like (as if I can't I am condemned > > > to export the data each time the questionnaire is completed) is the > > > capacity to date and save the results so that a score at time A can > > > then be compared to one done later at Time B. > > > > Best, > > > >Dickon > > > > On Apr 19, 8:46 am, Alex Hough <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I've just used plugins and help to build my capacity. > > > > I guess it has taken me months to kind of solve how to do the > > > > questions, but once i found the plugins, understood how they worked, > > > > messed about with questionnaires I can duplicate them quite quickly. I > > > > am still not sure this way is the right way to go. > > > > > Saq has a method whcih works withTiddlyWebwhich uses another way to > > > > generate the forms. This might be better in the long run so that > > > > multiple questionnaries can be colleceted togtrher. > > > > > It might not be so great a jump to get from here to > > > > > > allocating a score to each item according to whether it is not true, > > > > > somewhat true or certainly true? > > > > > It has scores: 1= not true , 2= somewhat true , 3 = certainly true. > > > > These scores are captured in the tiddler with the help of DataTiddler > > > > The for each tiddler plugin sorts the questions into not true etc. > > > > using the numbers. > > > > > To change the scores to 1 -5 lickert scale, you would have to add the > > > > tiddler 'lickertTemplate' to your questions, rather than lickertSD > > > > which is the one for the strenghts and difficulties. > > > > > Erics story plugin makes it possible to open a collection of tiddlers > > > > - a "story"- after closing all the other open tiddlers. In the > > > > questionnare are two stories, the questions and the traffic lights > > > > To make a story you make a tiddler and tag it "story". then add > > > > [[links to other tiddlers]] in that tiddlers to all the tiddlers you > > > > want including in the story > > > > You then make a button with the macro thus: > > > > > <<story [[name of tiddler tagged with 'story']] [[text to display on > > > > the button]] [[tooltip]]>> > > > > > Alex > > > > Re:I am blown away by how quickly you did that. Thanks again, Alex. > > > > I'm inspired by the help I have got here from Eric, FND etc. Its an > > > > enormous pleasure to be able to do something of value in the > > > > TiddlyWiki realm. Must be some kind of psychology behind that, some > > > > group theory, the way the TW community has grown (and been > > > > nurtured?)? > > > > > > Best, > > > > > >Dickon > > > > > > On 18 Apr, 17:49, Alex Hough <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > I can feel some more late nights ahead. > > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >> I only have rare opportunities to help out in the TiddlyVerse - I am > > > > >> usually the recipient of Eric's, FND's and others' kind help > > > > >> I put your questions into the my questionnaire TW [1] - I hope they > > > > >> might be of some help to you or anyone else. > > > > > >> Psychology, Linking, Tags and TiddlyWiki > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >> Interesting to be made aware of Wilfred Bion. I'll have a look at > > > > >> his stuff. > > > > > >> Alex > > > > > >> [1]http://r.a.hough.googlepages.com/StrengthsandDifficultiesQuestionnai.... > > > > > >> The final point in your comment is > > > > > >> > particularly relevant and interesting to me - about the APPLIED > > > > >> > side > > > > >> > of TW's as opposed to (or //alongside//, rather) the technical > > > > >> > developments that mostly leave me scratching my head at present > > > > >> > (though I have high hopes...) > > > > > >> > I have been playing with the content of my TiddlyWiki manual for a > > > > >> > long time now, but certainly would not claim any specific > > > > >> > competencies > > > > >> > (at all!) in the programming side of things; rather, it is the > > > > >> > APPLICATION of this elegantly different writing format that > > > > >> > fascinates > > > > >> > me, and what it can bring to real life tasks, like running a team > > > > >> > who > > > > >> > are trying to do a complex set of tasks better, and in a more > > > > >> > joined- > > > > >> > up way. > > > > > >> > I am fascinated in the way that TW works not just as an > > > > >> > *analytical* > > > > >> > tool (splitting a complex area up into branches/tags, much as a > > > > >> > 'mind > > > > >> > map' can do on paper) but that simultaneously it works as an > > > > >> > *integrative* tool (linking distant branches/twigs) so that I > > > > >> > sometimes envisage the web of information in a TW as being 3- > > > > >> > dimensional: Tags spreading out over the surface of a sphere, > > > > >> > Links > > > > >> > diving through the core to their targets, though of course this is > > > > >> > too > > > > >> > simple in reality. > > > > > >> > Hence I am very interested in rather abstract notions such as > > > > >> > "What, > > > > >> > precisely (semantically and pragmatically, that is), is a link, > > > > >> > and a > > > > >> > tag?" and "what does non-linearity offer to the reader and writer > > > > >> > that > > > > >> > more conventional linear text forms lack? - and what do we risk > > > > >> > losing > > > > >> > by not having a linear statement of an argument?" Clearly this is > > > > >> > a > > > > >> > Both-And rather than an Either-Or situation. No doubt others have > > > > >> > thought long and hard about these questions already, and I would be > > > > >> > most interested if there are any pointers to where I can connect up > > > > >> > with this conversation. > > > > > >> > There is a seminal paper (1959) in the field of psychoanalysis by a > > > > >> > British analyst called Wilfred Bion titled "Attacks on Linking", > > > > >> > and > > > > >> > to summarise this very complex and dense piece of writing, he is > > > > >> > saying that unconscious processes (which might be construed as > > > > >> > having > > > > >> > a "vested interest" in remaining unconscious) "conspire" to keep > > > > >> > apart > > > > >> > material that could and probably "should" be linked in the mind > > > > >> > ("Don't bore me with the facts, I like my story the > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
