G'day bobj, Just a quick note to say I've finally had a chance to have a first look at your shared TW.
Seeing as I tend to be slow as molasses, and need to read something multiple times, as I'm dealing with a few too many distractions (loss of employment as of last Thursday and now trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up). I am slightly deer in the headlights at the moment, so bear with me and know that I definitely do not have you or this on ignore ! On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 1:00:47 AM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: > Colleagues, > > all this thinking started by Charlie's initial posting, has led me to > begin building a simple TW utilising the Toulmin Argument Model for > representing links and associations between TW tiddlers. This is something > I have been planning to do for some time, now that I am 'retired' I have > the time. > > My reasoning is that a completed statement represents the context in which > the link between Ground and Claim can be made. This then also supports many > different reasons for creating an association between a set of Grounds and > Claims each one providing a single instance of context in which the > association is deemed valid. > > My thoughts so far: > A statement can be considered like an IF...THEN statement but more > complicated due to the additional elements, Warrant, Backing, Rebuttal and > Qualifier. The IF part represents the Ground and the THEN part the Claim. > > The Qualifier could be a percentage value or some other statement of > possibility/plausibility. > > Not all elements need to be utilised in any statement, only those that > make sense for that particular statement. > > Elements can be re-used between statements > > Statements can be collected together into a domain of thought or > applicability. Thus a single TW could cater for many domains. > > Each element is represented by its own tiddler and all tiddlers for a > statement are linked together to form the completed statement. Links are > stored as Field values in the statement tiddler and also in a Statement > field of each element tiddler as the links are essentially many-to-many in > ER terms. > > Quandries: > > How to handle content elements not text? Images, audio, video, etc... > > How to produce an 'active' instance of the domain, ie. an instance that > functions follow some reasoning mechanism (ie. forward chaining...) > > Shared TW: > > http://turtlelane.com.au/Development/ToulminModel/toulmin.html > > Happy to have your input/thoughts/etc. > > bobj > > On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 15:30:11 UTC+11 Charlie Veniot wrote: > >> Like misery, hyperactive-firing-on-all-cylinders synapses love company ... >> >> Although right here in this group is fine by me, I'm interested wherever >> discussion happens. >> >> On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:30:48 PM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Charlie, Tones, TiddlyTweeter >>> >>> first off, I hold you personally responsible for firing up my dormant >>> synapses. Thanks for that, you have provided renewed impetus for me to >>> continue pondering these issues, which I essentially ceased to do in any >>> meaningful way since I left my research position at CSIRO (the Federal >>> Government's research body in Australia). A dormant area of my brain has >>> reawakened :-) This will also require me to unbox my library so suitable >>> books can be re-queried (all my books are in storage as we have been living >>> most of the time in South Korea for the past decade. Corona has left us >>> 'stranded' in Sydney). >>> >>> I will respond to the recent postings but, like Tones, need to think >>> things through a bit more rather than provide a rambling nonsense of ideas >>> and thoughts. >>> >>> One thought though. Maybe it is time to take discussion outside of this >>> group. Not that I want to disenfranchise anybody but the discussion has >>> wider ramifications/application than Tiddlywiki. It also can be applied to >>> Mediawiki and even Bill Atkinson's original Hypercard and its offshoots. >>> Also, this discussion can then take advantage to TW's linking facility, >>> etc. Just a thought. >>> >>> Ciao for now. >>> >>> bobj >>> On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 14:19:52 UTC+11 Bob Jansen wrote: >>> >>>> TiddlyTweeter wrote: >>>> "Very good case example (http://cultconv.com/ [footnote---on mobile >>>> its too minuscule!])." >>>> >>>> yes, I know of the sizing issue on mobile devices. Not sure how to >>>> handle that other than a redesign which I am loathe to do given usage >>>> stats >>>> (~8,000 per month over last calendar year). The basic design is for >>>> multiple synchronous channels of information, in this case four >>>> (video/audio, transcript, table of contents and images with captions). >>>> Altogether too much for a small screen. Plus on iPhone, the video takes >>>> over the whole screen anyway. >>>> >>>> bobj >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 03:50:57 UTC+11 TiddlyTweeter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ciao bobj >>>>> >>>>> Very good case example (http://cultconv.com/ [footnote---on mobile >>>>> its too minuscule!]). >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I really took to your last point ... >>>>> >>>>> Throughout all of my research career, the issue that continually crops >>>>>> up is context. I think this is the crucial component to keep things >>>>>> understandable. Yet no agreed understanding of context exists yet we all >>>>>> use it ... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right. In terms of information design issues there is no algorithm for >>>>> accurately deriving either "scope of meaning" or "scope of inference >>>>> (context implying)". Though it is pretty clear on net that within "fields >>>>> of interest" context is ALWAYS playing an implicit role in successful >>>>> sites. >>>>> >>>>> I thought the site you gave access to excellent. *Very honed to >>>>> purpose*. It is an unusual (uplifting) thing seeing such a >>>>> "schematization" work so well. >>>>> I think that is the point. You have to "sniff/tease" out context and >>>>> back generate (derive) schema from that first-felt understanding that >>>>> isn't >>>>> otherwise derivable. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes >>>>> TT >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6aac4581-a58c-42ae-af6f-283a19bf0076n%40googlegroups.com.
