Thanks Tones. Will have a good look at these two. Due to competing priorities, my work on this has been downgraded so I will not be able to do much before the new year.
Sorry about this but pragmatics take priority. bobj On Wednesday, 16 December 2020 at 00:00:12 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: > Bob, > > The plugins I mentioned > > - Jeds GenTags https://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/GenericTagFields/ > - Relink plugin https://flibbles.github.io/tw5-relink/ > > The other suggestions I made, I intend to do a proof of Concept, but I am > busy with many things so not immediately. > > My point is it will be easy to build sophisticated relationship modelling > for any algorithm or data model we want. > > Tones > > > > > On Tuesday, 15 December 2020 at 10:28:05 UTC+11 bob...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Tones, >> >> sorry for my tardy reply but have been busy organising an exhibition of >> my partner's work at Cowra Regional Gallery. >> >> Where can I find these plugins? The plugin library does not appear to >> have them. >> >> bobj >> >> On Friday, 11 December 2020 at 09:38:15 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: >> >>> Bob, >>> >>> Delayed reply I know. Implementing the Toulmin Model on tiddlywiki would >>> be using the features that make tiddlywiki capable of representing any >>> relationship model. >>> I would need to be a little more focused but a few quick leads for now. >>> >>> - Alt-tags or Gen tags plugin allows for additional tags fields, one >>> could use one for each type of relationship if one wanted >>> - This can be done with wikitext and macros but using this allows >>> a quicker solution >>> - Alt-tags is a quick way to utilise multi-value fields in a >>> similar way to tags >>> - The relink plugin and additional configurations can help ensure >>> referential integrity by updating references to a tiddler name if it is >>> renamed. As a result you can have list like fields with relationships >>> that >>> will update on tiddler name change. Look into its settings once >>> installed >>> to see ways to set the relink plugins scope. >>> - A method to connect one tiddler to another can be designed to >>> populate fields in both tiddlers so that each has the other in a field. >>> This allows two way relationships, if you allow multiple entries it >>> becomes >>> one to many or many to many. >>> - I do not see any difficulty implementing the top row of your >>> diagram by creating parameter driven "create and relationship setting >>> tools". >>> >>> Regards >>> Tony >>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 13:53:33 UTC+11 bob...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Tones, >>>> >>>> Yes it was and the tenor of your reply implied to me you had some >>>> detailed insight into ways of implementing the Toulmin model I proposed >>>> apart from what I menetioned, using fields, etc.. That's what piqued my >>>> interest. >>>> >>>> Now you pique me more. Can you explain how to use alt-tags, relink etc >>>> in TW? Any examples? >>>> >>>> Always looking to learn.... >>>> >>>> bobj >>>> >>>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 13:07:45 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bob, >>>>> >>>>> Is this in response to this reply >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/57_eiPadjCo/m/uknk-SRbAAAJ> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> I am confident of creating links and relationships of any type with >>>>> tiddlywiki, with tags, alt-tags and relink etc... we can maintain >>>>> referential integrity. So I believe most algorithm's can be implemented. >>>>> Was there something more specific in what I said you want me to provide >>>>> more details? >>>>> >>>>> I would of course need to be more familiar with the Toulmin data model >>>>> to implement it well. >>>>> >>>>> Tones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:45:40 UTC+11 bob...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Tones, >>>>>> >>>>>> you piqued my curiosity with your statement about implementation >>>>>> methods of the Toulmin data model I espoused before. But you didn't >>>>>> elaborate :-( >>>>>> >>>>>> So come on, how about some of your ideas :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> bobj >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:43:43 UTC+11 Bob Jansen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a pleasure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bobj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, 6 December 2020 at 22:58:16 UTC+11 hww...@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is a neat association/relationship sketch. Thanks for sharing >>>>>>>> it and the link to your research site. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 8:21:04 PM UTC-5 bob...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tones, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> your description of your hierarchy brought back to mind the PhD >>>>>>>>> thesis work I did on extending conventional data dictionaries to >>>>>>>>> cater for >>>>>>>>> knowledge objects. I created a proof of concept using Hypercard, a >>>>>>>>> precursor of TW, using a data model similar to what you are >>>>>>>>> describing. The >>>>>>>>> data model is >>>>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2020-12-06 at 12.15.20 pm.png] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The dual associations between Entity Type and Allowed Relationship >>>>>>>>> and Entity and Relationship are to record the owner and member of a >>>>>>>>> relationship. The top three entities provide a model of the domain at >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> conceptual level whilst instances are recorded in the bottom three >>>>>>>>> entities. Entries in the bottom three entities must conform to those >>>>>>>>> allowed, ie. those recorded in the top three entities. So, entities >>>>>>>>> must be >>>>>>>>> of an allowed type. Relationships must be of an allowed type between >>>>>>>>> allowed entity types. Attributes must be of the allowed type for that >>>>>>>>> entity type. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can read some articles about the Knowledge Dictionary on my >>>>>>>>> ResearchGate account (researchgate.net) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This discussion takes me back many years. Fascinating how things >>>>>>>>> come round again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> bobj >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, 4 December 2020 at 13:31:19 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just want to add if there has not being a database model >>>>>>>>>> before, tiddlywiki is an ideal platform to model any relationship. >>>>>>>>>> Of late >>>>>>>>>> I have endeavoured in any application to never compromise the >>>>>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>>>>> add an additional layer of organisation, an alternate view or a >>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>> simultaneous representation. An old line "not taking hostages of the >>>>>>>>>> future" my father quotes, is reinvented by me to "Not taking >>>>>>>>>> decisions >>>>>>>>>> that compromise the future" is an interesting approach on top of >>>>>>>>>> tiddlywiki >>>>>>>>>> especially when looking at alternate database or knowledge models. >>>>>>>>>> As one >>>>>>>>>> proceeds to "try different systems" on top of tiddlywiki we gain >>>>>>>>>> practical >>>>>>>>>> experience with a kind of meta database systems view. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> One Idea of my own that may be of interest, not withstanding >>>>>>>>>> Charlies love hate relationship with hierarchy ,is the following >>>>>>>>>> model I am >>>>>>>>>> keen to experiment with. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Every object is a tiddler >>>>>>>>>> - Every object is in a hierarchy, even if it begins with only >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> - Every attribute is a relationship to an object in another >>>>>>>>>> hierarchy >>>>>>>>>> - Hierarchies act as I kind of "fuzzy value" where with more >>>>>>>>>> information the hierarchies go deeper as they grow >>>>>>>>>> - When assigning an attribute a value you do so via a >>>>>>>>>> relationship to a hierarchy if you find it you use it, if not you >>>>>>>>>> add it, >>>>>>>>>> - If you do not have a detail ie it is coloured but no what >>>>>>>>>> color it is you point to an item in the color hierarchy such as >>>>>>>>>> color - or >>>>>>>>>> unknown colour. >>>>>>>>>> - Should you come across a database of colors you use it to >>>>>>>>>> populate the colour hierarchy, and where possible change items >>>>>>>>>> pointing >>>>>>>>>> into the hierarchy you move the relationship to a less fuzzy >>>>>>>>>> member of the >>>>>>>>>> hierarchy. >>>>>>>>>> - People, a group, a process can take charge of a hierarchy >>>>>>>>>> and do as they wish as long as the honour or improve the >>>>>>>>>> relationships >>>>>>>>>> already codified. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts >>>>>>>>>> Tones >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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