Bob, The plugins I mentioned
- Jeds GenTags https://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/GenericTagFields/ - Relink plugin https://flibbles.github.io/tw5-relink/ The other suggestions I made, I intend to do a proof of Concept, but I am busy with many things so not immediately. My point is it will be easy to build sophisticated relationship modelling for any algorithm or data model we want. Tones On Tuesday, 15 December 2020 at 10:28:05 UTC+11 [email protected] wrote: > Tones, > > sorry for my tardy reply but have been busy organising an exhibition of my > partner's work at Cowra Regional Gallery. > > Where can I find these plugins? The plugin library does not appear to have > them. > > bobj > > On Friday, 11 December 2020 at 09:38:15 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> Delayed reply I know. Implementing the Toulmin Model on tiddlywiki would >> be using the features that make tiddlywiki capable of representing any >> relationship model. >> I would need to be a little more focused but a few quick leads for now. >> >> - Alt-tags or Gen tags plugin allows for additional tags fields, one >> could use one for each type of relationship if one wanted >> - This can be done with wikitext and macros but using this allows >> a quicker solution >> - Alt-tags is a quick way to utilise multi-value fields in a >> similar way to tags >> - The relink plugin and additional configurations can help ensure >> referential integrity by updating references to a tiddler name if it is >> renamed. As a result you can have list like fields with relationships >> that >> will update on tiddler name change. Look into its settings once installed >> to see ways to set the relink plugins scope. >> - A method to connect one tiddler to another can be designed to >> populate fields in both tiddlers so that each has the other in a field. >> This allows two way relationships, if you allow multiple entries it >> becomes >> one to many or many to many. >> - I do not see any difficulty implementing the top row of your >> diagram by creating parameter driven "create and relationship setting >> tools". >> >> Regards >> Tony >> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 13:53:33 UTC+11 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Tones, >>> >>> Yes it was and the tenor of your reply implied to me you had some >>> detailed insight into ways of implementing the Toulmin model I proposed >>> apart from what I menetioned, using fields, etc.. That's what piqued my >>> interest. >>> >>> Now you pique me more. Can you explain how to use alt-tags, relink etc >>> in TW? Any examples? >>> >>> Always looking to learn.... >>> >>> bobj >>> >>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 13:07:45 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: >>> >>>> Bob, >>>> >>>> Is this in response to this reply >>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/57_eiPadjCo/m/uknk-SRbAAAJ> ? >>>> >>>> I am confident of creating links and relationships of any type with >>>> tiddlywiki, with tags, alt-tags and relink etc... we can maintain >>>> referential integrity. So I believe most algorithm's can be implemented. >>>> Was there something more specific in what I said you want me to provide >>>> more details? >>>> >>>> I would of course need to be more familiar with the Toulmin data model >>>> to implement it well. >>>> >>>> Tones >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:45:40 UTC+11 [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tones, >>>>> >>>>> you piqued my curiosity with your statement about implementation >>>>> methods of the Toulmin data model I espoused before. But you didn't >>>>> elaborate :-( >>>>> >>>>> So come on, how about some of your ideas :-) >>>>> >>>>> bobj >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:43:43 UTC+11 Bob Jansen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hans >>>>>> >>>>>> a pleasure. >>>>>> >>>>>> bobj >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, 6 December 2020 at 22:58:16 UTC+11 [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is a neat association/relationship sketch. Thanks for sharing >>>>>>> it and the link to your research site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 8:21:04 PM UTC-5 [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tones, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your description of your hierarchy brought back to mind the PhD >>>>>>>> thesis work I did on extending conventional data dictionaries to cater >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> knowledge objects. I created a proof of concept using Hypercard, a >>>>>>>> precursor of TW, using a data model similar to what you are >>>>>>>> describing. The >>>>>>>> data model is >>>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2020-12-06 at 12.15.20 pm.png] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The dual associations between Entity Type and Allowed Relationship >>>>>>>> and Entity and Relationship are to record the owner and member of a >>>>>>>> relationship. The top three entities provide a model of the domain at >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> conceptual level whilst instances are recorded in the bottom three >>>>>>>> entities. Entries in the bottom three entities must conform to those >>>>>>>> allowed, ie. those recorded in the top three entities. So, entities >>>>>>>> must be >>>>>>>> of an allowed type. Relationships must be of an allowed type between >>>>>>>> allowed entity types. Attributes must be of the allowed type for that >>>>>>>> entity type. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can read some articles about the Knowledge Dictionary on my >>>>>>>> ResearchGate account (researchgate.net) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This discussion takes me back many years. Fascinating how things >>>>>>>> come round again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bobj >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, 4 December 2020 at 13:31:19 UTC+11 TW Tones wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I just want to add if there has not being a database model before, >>>>>>>>> tiddlywiki is an ideal platform to model any relationship. Of late I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> endeavoured in any application to never compromise the ability to add >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> additional layer of organisation, an alternate view or a different >>>>>>>>> simultaneous representation. An old line "not taking hostages of the >>>>>>>>> future" my father quotes, is reinvented by me to "Not taking >>>>>>>>> decisions >>>>>>>>> that compromise the future" is an interesting approach on top of >>>>>>>>> tiddlywiki >>>>>>>>> especially when looking at alternate database or knowledge models. As >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> proceeds to "try different systems" on top of tiddlywiki we gain >>>>>>>>> practical >>>>>>>>> experience with a kind of meta database systems view. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One Idea of my own that may be of interest, not withstanding >>>>>>>>> Charlies love hate relationship with hierarchy ,is the following >>>>>>>>> model I am >>>>>>>>> keen to experiment with. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Every object is a tiddler >>>>>>>>> - Every object is in a hierarchy, even if it begins with only >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> - Every attribute is a relationship to an object in another >>>>>>>>> hierarchy >>>>>>>>> - Hierarchies act as I kind of "fuzzy value" where with more >>>>>>>>> information the hierarchies go deeper as they grow >>>>>>>>> - When assigning an attribute a value you do so via a >>>>>>>>> relationship to a hierarchy if you find it you use it, if not you >>>>>>>>> add it, >>>>>>>>> - If you do not have a detail ie it is coloured but no what >>>>>>>>> color it is you point to an item in the color hierarchy such as >>>>>>>>> color - or >>>>>>>>> unknown colour. >>>>>>>>> - Should you come across a database of colors you use it to >>>>>>>>> populate the colour hierarchy, and where possible change items >>>>>>>>> pointing >>>>>>>>> into the hierarchy you move the relationship to a less fuzzy >>>>>>>>> member of the >>>>>>>>> hierarchy. >>>>>>>>> - People, a group, a process can take charge of a hierarchy >>>>>>>>> and do as they wish as long as the honour or improve the >>>>>>>>> relationships >>>>>>>>> already codified. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts >>>>>>>>> Tones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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