Yes, the central question is could blockchain be useful to tiddlywiki. And so far the only answer has been to use it as a proof of existence by storing what is in one blockchain (file hashes in git) in a different from in another block chain.
Also, traceability in a blockchain is guaranteed only for events that happen on the blockchain, not for what the blockchain is supposed to represent. It is always open to any sort of manipulation at the human interface side. I could start a car tracing block chain, and I could add 10000 cars to it saying that I own them. That has no bearing on the real world without some mediating central authority, and with a mediating central authority the blockchain is redundant. People keep saying 'I am not familiar with the technology' and then arguing against someone who has studied the theory and technology that goes into blockchains in academic, hobby and professional capacities. The blind faith in the unchangeable nature of a blockchain is a huge security risk to anything that uses it. It is worth repeating over and over: all the guarantees are just for the numbers stored on the computer, there are absolutely no guarantees about what those numbers represent. All the traceability claims completely fail when it gets to the data entry into the blockchain. After working with some startups I am very familiar with how easy it is to separate people from large sums of money by making magical claims that aren't backed up by reality, investment in a technology and the actual utility of the technology don't correlate. And as far as smart contracts go, never sign a contract you don't understand. Someone with my skills would be able to make a contract that does whatever I want it to do and have it all be essentially invisible to someone who isn't intimately familiar with the technology that goes though the code line by line to verify every part of it. As as example: https://kf106.medium.com/how-to-sleepmint-nft-tokens-bc347dc148f2 For ip protection, if Sony (or any other large monied entity) wanted to claim ownership of anything I have created I would bet on their money and lawyers over any proof I have of ownership every time, regardless of what proof of ownership I have, no matter how impossible it is to counterfeit. But, all of that is off topic, to address the original topic, there are three questions that need to be answered: what, how and why. Why is easy, because it could be interesting. So we don't have to worry about that. What is the important one that hasn't been answered aside from a legally untested method for proof of ip ownership. And that isn't a method for tiddlywiki so much as just an option using external tools. And given what I know, I would never accept a hash stored on a blockchain as the only proof of a claim if there were any significant consequences related to it. It is impossible to answer how without answering what first. So, what would any blockchain technology do in tiddlywiki? Without that we may as well say 'should we incorporate Ingenuity flying on mars into tiddlywiki?' No one is going to claim that Ingenuity isn't important or worth paying attention to, but what does the question even mean? It is just gibberish without some idea of what 'incorporate' would involve. This is the exact same question as before and it needs an answer before there is any chance of discussion other than playing buzzword bingo. Like what does 'a blockchain of secure tiddlers' mean in practical terms? On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 3:07:54 AM UTC+2 TW Tones wrote: > Mart, > > I applaud your raising blockchain as a possible integration to tiddlywiki. > > I spent some time researching the technology, but I could not build an > instance, nor am I an expert, however some thoughts; > > I think it could be a good technology to make use of with tiddlywiki, > especially since it does promote secure sharing, unalterable "documents" > and cutting out the middlemen (which is some ways a feature of tiddlywiki), > > Perhaps the first application I can see is if there were a way to publish > selected tiddlers into a blockchain, effectively small documents. A range > of features not possible in standard tiddlywiki would then become available > to tiddlywiki users and designers. In this case we would look at a > providing secure, certified shared information services via such a > blockchain and to users of tiddlywiki. Plugins and utility data could be > published to the blockchain for public access and private tiddlers for > security `between wikis and wiki users. > > Now this somewhat simplified description of a block chain of secure > tiddlers could actually generate a wide number of seriously powerful > solutions, by keeping it to a simple set of enabling blockchain > technologies linked to the tiddler. I have cultivated a creative side to my > use of Information Technology and can imagine many possibilities, but I > will not extrapolate for know asI hope others may contribute ideas > unaffected by what I think. > > As a person concerned with environmental damage I would be keen not to > develop a mining process that costs so much computing power as just bitcoin > is already using a substantial percentage of total world computing and > power resources. I am not sure what this means for our possible uses. > > Regards > Tones > > On Sunday, 9 May 2021 at 19:26:17 UTC+10 Mat wrote: > >> @inmysocks >> >> That's a very sober approach - but/and which I don't think anyone has >> contradicted. My question is; *could *blockchain somehow be of value for >> TW? I would not be surprised if it could, especially for aspects that we >> currently disregard or dismiss for TW. After all, TW is very generic so one >> way of looking at the question is if there are non-TW use cases that where >> blockchain is advantagous or even critical, and only *then* ask if TW >> could be incorporated and bring value in that context. >> >> Interestingly, you question the value of blockchain tech per se and >> identify a single use case (NFT's for collectable toys). I didn't intend >> for this thread to go there but I guess it's run its course so: >> >> I can see many use cases where blockchains make sense: One general area >> is "traceability". For example a *car blockchain* that tracks ownership >> of cars, their mileage, repairs etc. Or a housing registry. Makes a lot of >> sense to me. I can also see how central banks / nations would want full >> control over their money flows. Here's >> <https://www.winnesota.com/blockchain>a use general case for "logistics" >> and explanation for why blockchain tech supposedly is perfect for it. If >> nothing else, the article should make it clear (at least to me) that it can >> be difficult to see the use of blockchain if one doesn't actually know of >> the needs for the particular business. Other than traceability, blockchains >> also bring the smart contract aspect that cuts out middle men for >> transactions. A pretty big deal and potentially an enormous money saver. >> And, if nothing else, at least the potential for decentralized control of >> things should resonate with TW folks. >> >> Disclaimer: I know very little about blockchain tech but it is becoming a >> mature technology and there's billions USD poured into it... so there has >> to be *something *to it, I figure... >> >> <:-) >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ababcbf3-dc43-491a-bbee-9652c2088b28n%40googlegroups.com.
