Hi And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!!
Bob > On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W <[email protected]> wrote: > > A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run > standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal > circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and > disciplining to the 1PPS. > > The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things are > looking very good. > > I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will post > that here when I am done. > > Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the project. > > Regards > > Dan > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible >> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% >> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick different >> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” with an >> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. >> >> That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon >> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms since >> then. >> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to call >> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS receivers. >> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you >> have a LOT of changes. >> >> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the REF-0, >> with >> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high >> stability / >> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high sensitivity GPS >> to >> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. >> >> ============ >> >> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! >> >> Bob >> >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. >>> >>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore >>> receivers. >>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to >>> use a new >>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the >>> messages >>> required to do that. >>> >>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as >>> ASCII >>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited >>> with >>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and >>> after many >>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. >>> >>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The >>> problem >>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels >>> while >>> the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is >>> two >>> more groups of satellite data. >>> >>> I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. >>> Considering >>> the low level of interest in this subject, please write to [email protected] >>> for >>> further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please >>> make a >>> reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a >>> 28 volt >>> 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being >>> downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other >>> stuff. >>> >>> Bill Hawkins >>> Bloomington, MN 55438 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob >>> Camp >>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA >>> era >>> (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. >>> The signal >>> spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it >>> worth >>> playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound >>> reasonable. >>> >>> As with any absolute statement, there are sure to be exceptions >>> .. >>> >>> ====== >>> >>> For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. >>> The KS >>> does not care that it always sees the same sats at the same locations >>> directly >>> over its own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. >>> >>> It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here >>> and there. >>> None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore >>> strings >>> are something Mr Google knows a lot about. >>> >>> If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, >>> remember that >>> each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS >>> fired relative to >>> things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the >>> time label wrong >>> is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical >>> evidence of >>> what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. Its far >>> harder to track down >>> when only looking at the outside of the device. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dan exactly my thinking. >>>> I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. >>>> Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think >>> there is >>>> a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real >>> oncore >>>> or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats >>>> needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all >>>> easily do a fixed string. >>>> Regards >>>> Paul >>>> WB8TSL >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, >>> and >>>>> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code >>> can be >>>>> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using >>> a ~$1 >>>>> chip. >>>>> >>>>> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should >>> still be >>>>> quite easy to do. >>>>> >>>>> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a >>> Jupiter-T >>>>> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very >>> nicely >>>>> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's >>> notes and >>>>> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking forward to the notes. >>>>>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that >>>>>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps >>> after >>>>> that >>>>>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with >>> the >>>>>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low >>> end >>>>> ones >>>>>> will do that stunt very easily. >>>>>> That would be pretty sweet. >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> WB8TSL >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably >>> take a >>>>>>> few days >>>>>>> to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What you will need: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) A working REF-0 >>>>>>> 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going >>>>>>> 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) >>>>>>> 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time its booted, there is >>> no >>>>> real >>>>>>> advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More to follow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would like that information too please and thank you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second >>> REF-0 >>>>>>> that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet >>> to >>>>> figure >>>>>>> out what is needed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers, Graham ve3gtc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position >>> locked in >>>>>>> and spitting out the right strings. >>>>>>>>> Thats all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply >>> grabs >>>>>>> the data off of the string >>>>>>>>> as it comes by. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ill see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off >>> list. >>>>>>> Its buried around here somewhere. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have some Motorola Oncore available. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you detail this "fairly simple manipulation of the signal >>> lines"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box >>>>> discussions. >>>>>>> All of the work decoding >>>>>>>>>>> the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off >>> list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Simple answer: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string >>> that >>>>>>> looks like the output >>>>>>>>>>> of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple >>> manipulation >>>>>>> of the signal lines. >>>>>>>>>>> It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Fellows! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without >>> GPS, >>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>> standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to >>>>>>> configure it? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + >>> USD >>>>>>> 52.30 >>>>>>>>>>>> (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as >>> custom >>>>>>> taxes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
