Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore receivers. Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to use a new crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the messages required to do that.
The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as ASCII characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be edited with explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and after many years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The problem with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels while the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is two more groups of satellite data. I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. Considering the low level of interest in this subject, please write to b...@iaxs.net for further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please make a reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with a 28 volt 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is being downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other stuff. Bill Hawkins Bloomington, MN 55438 -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it worth playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does sound reasonable. As with any absolute statement, there are sure to be exceptions .. ====== For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. The KS does not care that it always sees the same sats at the same locations directly over its own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here and there. None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the Oncore strings are something Mr Google knows a lot about. If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, remember that each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS fired relative to things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the time label wrong is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical evidence of what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. Its far harder to track down when only looking at the outside of the device. Bob > On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dan exactly my thinking. > I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. > Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think there is > a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real oncore > or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats > needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all > easily do a fixed string. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W <watsondani...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, and >> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code can be >> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using a ~$1 >> chip. >> >> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should still be >> quite easy to do. >> >> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a Jupiter-T >> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very nicely >> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's notes and >> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. >> >> Dan >> >>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Looking forward to the notes. >>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that >>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after >> that >>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with the >>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low end >> ones >>> will do that stunt very easily. >>> That would be pretty sweet. >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a >>>> few days >>>> to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. >>>> >>>> What you will need: >>>> >>>> 1) A working REF-0 >>>> 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going >>>> 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) >>>> 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0 >>>> >>>> Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time its booted, there is no >> real >>>> advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix. >>>> >>>> More to follow. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham <planoph...@aei.ca> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bob, >>>>> >>>>> I would like that information too please and thank you. >>>>> >>>>> I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second REF-0 >>>> that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet to >> figure >>>> out what is needed. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, Graham ve3gtc >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position locked in >>>> and spitting out the right strings. >>>>>> Thats all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply grabs >>>> the data off of the string >>>>>> as it comes by. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ill see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off list. >>>> Its buried around here somewhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>> time-n...@tardis.net.br> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have some Motorola Oncore available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you detail this "fairly simple manipulation of the signal lines"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box >> discussions. >>>> All of the work decoding >>>>>>>> the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple answer: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string that >>>> looks like the output >>>>>>>> of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple manipulation >>>> of the signal lines. >>>>>>>> It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < >>>> time-n...@tardis.net.br> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Fellows! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS, >>>> as a >>>>>>>>> standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to >>>> configure it? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + USD >>>> 52.30 >>>>>>>>> (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as custom >>>> taxes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Edésio >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.