100% 2nd the thanks to all. On Aug 9, 2015 12:07 PM, "Bob Camp" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi > > And my thanks to all the others who worked on this project as well !!! > > Bob > > > On Aug 9, 2015, at 11:26 AM, D W <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A quick update for everyone. I have successfully gotten a REF-0 to run > standalone. I am using an AVR, an inexpensive GPS module and very minimal > circuitry. The 'NO GPS' light is off, and SatStat shows it is locked and > disciplining to the 1PPS. > > > > The stability of this needs to be assessed for a day or two. But things > are looking very good. > > > > I plan to write up a complete procedure with code and pictures. I will > post that here when I am done. > > > > Thanks for all of your help Bob, and to the others that worked on the > project. > > > > Regards > > > > Dan > > > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> While the newer Oncore’s are technically backwards compatible > >> with the old units, in practice (as you have noted) that’s not a 100% > >> sort of thing. If you work with a new(er) Oncore, you would pick > different > >> strings to use for this sort of thing. In order to have a “drop in” > with an > >> Oncore, you do indeed need a part made before (roughly) 2001. > >> > >> That kicks you back to 20 year old technology (the early Oncore silicon > >> came out in the mid 90’s) . A *lot* has happened in Moore’s Law terms > since then. > >> A lot has also happened in “aggregate volume” (what ever you want to > call > >> volume doubling) terms. Both of those things directly impact GPS > receivers. > >> Top that off with SA going away after the early Oncore came out and you > >> have a LOT of changes. > >> > >> Is that all bad? Of course not. It’s what makes me focus more on the > REF-0, with > >> a modern GPS than on the REF-1 with an old Oncore. You have the high > stability / > >> long loop stuff from the SA era. You have a high speed, high > sensitivity GPS to > >> go with it. In many ways, that’s the best of both worlds. > >> > >> ============ > >> > >> Hopefully somebody will pop up and take the gear off of your hands !! > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Hawkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Bob Camp has done a fine job of explaining the recent Lucent hardware. > >>> > >>> I have two of the old pairs with Rb oscillators and poor early Oncore > >>> receivers. > >>> Then I got a new pair with crystals and better GPS. I got the idea to > >>> use a new > >>> crystal unit to pair with an old RB unit, so I did some research on the > >>> messages > >>> required to do that. > >>> > >>> The data was acquired with a Pico Scope set to display the bytes as > >>> ASCII > >>> characters. The displays can be saved as text files, which can be > edited > >>> with > >>> explanations of the data. I have no skills with microcomputers, and > >>> after many > >>> years working with computers have no desire to acquire them. > >>> > >>> The messages decoded easily enough with the 1996 Oncore manual. The > >>> problem > >>> with mixing old and new units is that the old Oncore had six channels > >>> while > >>> the new one has eight. The messages don't match. The only difference is > >>> two > >>> more groups of satellite data. > >>> > >>> I have text files (MS Word 2003) with the contents of the messages. > >>> Considering > >>> the low level of interest in this subject, please write to > [email protected] > >>> for > >>> further details. If you'd like to experiment with the hardware, please > >>> make a > >>> reasonable offer for any of it. The new units have been assembled with > a > >>> 28 volt > >>> 3 amp supply into a mini-rack using aluminum angle. My time lab is > being > >>> downsized due to a move to senior living apartments. There's other > >>> stuff. > >>> > >>> Bill Hawkins > >>> Bloomington, MN 55438 > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob > >>> Camp > >>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM > >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone > >>> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA > >>> era > >>> (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. > >>> The signal > >>> spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it > >>> worth > >>> playing with. I have no authoritative source for that, but it does > sound > >>> reasonable. > >>> > >>> As with any “absolute” statement, there are sure to be exceptions > >>> .. > >>> > >>> ====== > >>> > >>> For the strings, you need the right status bits in the right locations. > >>> The KS > >>> does not care that it always sees the same sat’s at the same locations > >>> directly > >>> over it’s own north pole location. It just wants data in the field. > >>> > >>> It does care about the TRAIM status and probably a few other bits here > >>> and there. > >>> None of them appear to be hard to guess. All of the specs for the > Oncore > >>> strings > >>> are something Mr Google knows a lot about. > >>> > >>> If you do try to synthesize *real* strings off something like a uBlox, > >>> remember that > >>> each of these guys had a slightly different idea about when the PPS > >>> fired relative to > >>> things like correction data and the time label on that PPS. Getting the > >>> time label wrong > >>> is pretty easy to fix. I (unfortunately) have more than ample empirical > >>> evidence of > >>> what getting the sawtooth correction off one second does. It’s far > >>> harder to track down > >>> when only looking at the “outside” of the device. > >>> > >>> Bob > >>> > >>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 8:18 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dan exactly my thinking. > >>>> I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. > >>>> Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think > >>> there is > >>>> a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real > >>> oncore > >>>> or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit. Hard to say whats > >>>> needed but a good discussion. Be it any number of uProcs they can all > >>>> easily do a fixed string. > >>>> Regards > >>>> Paul > >>>> WB8TSL > >>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:13 PM, D W <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, > >>> and > >>>>> doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code > >>> can be > >>>>> developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using > >>> a ~$1 > >>>>> chip. > >>>>> > >>>>> Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should > >>> still be > >>>>> quite easy to do. > >>>>> > >>>>> A while back I wrote some code to parse the serial string from a > >>> Jupiter-T > >>>>> and display the information on a 4 line LCD display. It worked very > >>> nicely > >>>>> but I never did anything useful with it. I think I'll take Bob's > >>> notes and > >>>>> incorporate the REF-0. That would make for a very compact setup. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dan > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 2:06 PM, paul swed <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Looking forward to the notes. > >>>>>> Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that > >>>>>> essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps > >>> after > >>>>> that > >>>>>> the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with > >>> the > >>>>>> correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any of the low > >>> end > >>>>> ones > >>>>>> will do that stunt very easily. > >>>>>> That would be pretty sweet. > >>>>>> Paul > >>>>>> WB8TSL > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Bob Camp <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably > >>> take a > >>>>>>> few days > >>>>>>> to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What you will need: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 1) A working REF-0 > >>>>>>> 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going > >>>>>>> 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) > >>>>>>> 4) Code specific to your GPS and the needs of the REF-0 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Since the Oncore needs to be set up each time it’s booted, there is > >>> no > >>>>> real > >>>>>>> advantage to using one. You still need an MCU in the mix. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> More to follow. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Bob > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Graham <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bob, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I would like that information too please and thank you. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second > >>> REF-0 > >>>>>>> that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet > >>> to > >>>>> figure > >>>>>>> out what is needed. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> cheers, Graham ve3gtc > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position > >>> locked in > >>>>>>> and spitting out the right strings. > >>>>>>>>> That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply > >>> grabs > >>>>>>> the data off of the string > >>>>>>>>> as it comes by. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I’ll see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off > >>> list. > >>>>>>> It’s buried around here somewhere. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Bob > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < > >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I have some Motorola Oncore available. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Can you detail this "fairly simple manipulation of the signal > >>> lines"? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Edésio > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box > >>>>> discussions. > >>>>>>> All of the work decoding > >>>>>>>>>>> the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off > >>> list. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Simple answer: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Yes you can run a REF-0 by it???s self. It needs a dummy string > >>> that > >>>>>>> looks like the output > >>>>>>>>>>> of a Motorola Oncore to feed it and some fairly simple > >>> manipulation > >>>>>>> of the signal lines. > >>>>>>>>>>> It will then quite happily discipline to the pps you feed it. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Bob > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva < > >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Fellows! > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without > >>> GPS, > >>>>>>> as a > >>>>>>>>>>>> standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to > >>>>>>> configure it? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + > >>> USD > >>>>>>> 52.30 > >>>>>>>>>>>> (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as > >>> custom > >>>>>>> taxes. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Right now the REF-0/REF-1 pair would be too expensive. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Edésio > >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
