Dear Tim, Thanks for your reply.
I was simply inquisitive about the logic and was not really interested in whether someone has faith or in sharing mine. Stuart ___________________________________________________________________ Stuart J. McKelvie, Ph.D., Phone: (819)822-9600, Extension 2402 Department of Psychology, Fax: (819)822-9661 Bishop's University, 2600 College Street, Sherbrooke, Québec J1M 1Z7, Canada. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bishop's University Psychology Department Web Page: http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Shearon, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 22, 2008 3:19 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Help settle an argument Stuart- No. There is no logic as it is a set of assumptions- God so loved the world (ignore the evidence)- that's what some find so troubling to accepting it- they can't get past the contradictions of the first principles, as it were. "It is a mystery!!" "You have to have faith!!" That quickly proceeds to, "You can't have opinions about truth!" I think it is what George Carlin (and many theologians) are referring to when they talk about the Catholic Church, for example, encouraging doubting/searching to the point that one searches their way into a corner. Carlin's point is that his questioning resulted in doubting the very core of the system/faith and one looses faith in the religion and gains faith in themselves, humanity, and reason. BTW- I've been playing devil's advocate, as it were. Nothing I've said has been from my perspective. Michael asked the question, "to the Christian faith". :) I seriously doubt if this is the place to be sharing one's beliefs - I doubt that this is the place to be having this discussion anyway. Michael- Pay up! Tim _______________________________ Timothy O. Shearon, PhD Professor and Chair Department of Psychology The College of Idaho Caldwell, ID 83605 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and systems "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." Dorothy Parker -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McKelvie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 3/22/2008 12:08 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Help settle an argument Dear Tipsters, Could someone explain to me the logic behind the Christian claim that Christ's dying pays for OUR sins? Stuart ___________________________________________________________________ Stuart J. McKelvie, Ph.D., Phone: (819)822-9600, Extension 2402 Department of Psychology, Fax: (819)822-9661 Bishop's University, 2600 College Street, Sherbrooke (Borough of Lennoxville), Québec J1M 1Z7, Canada. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bishop's University Psychology Department Web Page: http://www.ubishops.ca/ccc/div/soc/psy ___________________________________________________________ ________________________________ From: Shearon, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 22-Mar-08 2:01 PM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: RE: [tips] Help settle an argument Mike (not Michael)- You are actually arguing against the literature, I think. Surely the death (good Friday) was necessary. But both death and resurrection were *necessary* to fulfill prophecy- thus, in that limited sense, you are correct. But had it ended with death . . . (I am aware of that argument that the resurrection is not possible without the death but that makes his temptation equally important, or puberty, or lust, and is an argument that is not well supported theologically, if memory of a long time ago works). The resurrection was necessary AND fulfillment of prophecy (completion) thus is far more important to most scholars of the new testament (or the New Testament- starting with that Jewish guy, Paul). Michael- pay up! (In all honesty, I think Mike has a point- but Michael made a bet that doesn't hold up. He asked which was most important to Christianity which is a larger issue and includes the practice of faith. Since one need only look for a tie breaker (both being necessary) then the obvious differences in celebratory assembly would make you have to pay up! Just mho.) :) Tim _______________________________ Timothy O. Shearon, PhD Professor and Chair Department of Psychology The College of Idaho Caldwell, ID 83605 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and systems "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." Dorothy Parker -----Original Message----- From: Michael Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 3/22/2008 12:15 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] Help settle an argument I would say that you can keep your money as the question is unanswerable. Christ died for the payment of sins; without which the entire teaching of Christianity is pointless. Note that it was with the death that the payment of sins was completed, not with the resurrection. Christ also noted that the point of His life was to suffer and die (not to be raised again). However, the resurrection 'validates' Christ's claims of being God incarnate, the forgiveness of sins and whatever other teachings he proclaimed (e.g. that He would later return to judge the living and the dead. (Since no one had conquered death before or since--not even Houdini (without getting into an argument about ancient stories of other resurrections.)) The resurrection of Christ also spells hope for a later resurrection of Christians (and a consequent resurrection life), without which there seems little point of forgiveness of sins. An aside: Aren't many of the important issues in life circular in reasoning? Even the meaning of words suffers from it. --Mike --- On Fri, 3/21/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [tips] Help settle an argument To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" <[email protected]> Date: Friday, March 21, 2008, 1:10 PM I say that Good Friday is the most important Christian event,but my friend says it is Easter Bible tipsters,please help.I have a $20 bet on this. Michael Sylvester,PhD Daytona Beach,Florida --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- To make changes to your subscription contact: Bill Southerly ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
