Hi

James M. Clark
Professor of Psychology
204-786-9757
204-774-4134 Fax
[email protected]

>>> Paul C Bernhardt <[email protected]> 26-Mar-11 5:07:28 PM >>>
I agree with you completely. While I'm sure that many of us on TIPS were first 
generation college students, I'm confident that most of us had family members 
who went to college before we did, often parents. Therefore, we had some 
awareness of what is needed for college success, trusted persons to ask, and 
support for our goals. 

I see many students who show up at college and they think (and their parents 
think) they are making a transition similar to that from primary school to 
secondary school, as if freshman year of college is just the 13th grade. They 
need to be taught how to go to college. They need to be taught that courses 
will not meet 5 days a week (typically) and that what you will be tested on 
will be not necessarily be talked about in class. They need to learn that they 
are expected to do much work on their own. They need to learn how to prioritize 
their time, including their family. I have been astonished at times the degree 
of demands that some families put on their children who are away at college. I 
regularly see students whose parents are actively undermining their success, in 
some cases with not-so-secret communication that 'becoming educated is not what 
the family values, so just give up this college fantasy.' They are begged to 
come home every weekend, skip classes on Friday and Monday, etc. I've seen 
students whose parents have them come home every weekend to work in the family 
business all day Friday through Sunday. These parents (and the students) see 
only 12 credit hours scheduled as a full load and imagine that they have all 
the free time in the world, not knowing that 12 credits is expected to take up 
about 36 hours of their life when outside study is taken into account. 

I can go on and on... but it is clear to me that with the ongoing 
democratization of college access that a large proportion of our students at 
all but the elite colleges will be first generation and therefore likely to be 
poorly prepared to manage the total experience of college. Therefore, it is 
clear to me that courses which teach basic skills, management of their path 
through the curriculum, long term planning of their education for later life 
success, etc. are vital to the ultimate success of the college. If the college 
admits, but does not graduate, then they don't go on to get jobs that 
implicitly promote the school and in the most practical sense, that earn money 
to donate back to the school. It is vital to the ongoing success of the college 
that the college admit the best qualified it can, and support those it admits 
as well as it can and create systems that create higher likelihood of success 
both in college and after college. Successful graduates may enrich the college. 
Non-graduates will not. Courses that increase the yield of successful graduates 
from those who admitted should be welcomed by administrators and by faculty who 
value their careers and the future of the academy.

JC: As someone whose single mother quit school to work after grade 8 in England 
(not that unusual at the time) and who himself was married and with a child by 
2nd year, I can fully appreciate the challenges that many of today's students 
face (without any implication that if I can do it, others should be able to do 
it).  What I wonder about is how "success at college" is defined ... see 
response below to Claudia.

On Mar 26, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Claudia Stanny wrote:
> I also disagree with the idea that letting students fend for themselves on 
> these matters allows the "real cream" to rise to the top.  This smacks of the 
> "talent mindset" that Dweck talks about and identifies as an obstacle to 
> persistence when students hit difficult spots in their academic work.  These 
> metacognitive skills are learnable (and teachable) skills of academic life.  
> Many smart, capable kids hit walls they don't even know exist because someone 
> thinks that if they don't already know the secret handshake, they aren't cut 
> out for academia. What a waste. 

JC: I would not advocate letting students fend for themselves.  But if students 
were in a situation where they had to fend for themselves (as was generally the 
case in the past), then students are going to differentiate for some reason 
that may not be irrelevant to university success.  University is not just a 
teaching institution; it is also a selection institution.  Not all students are 
going to have what it takes to go on to graduate school, for example, no matter 
how well they might do as undergraduate students with highly structured 
teaching.  For example, I teach an intermediate data analysis course covering 
multiple regression and analysis of variance.  Over many years I have developed 
ways to get more students to learn the material than would be the case without 
these supports.  But even so and given roughly equivalent levels of 
performance, some of the students are clearly more likely to succeed at 
graduate school than others by virtue of the ease or depth of their 
understanding.  

In questioning the desirability of the proposed course, I simply wonder whether 
there is not some way to design programs so that students acquire the 
metacognitive skills as well as the specified competencies?  To use a simple 
example, consider ways to teach APA style.  One could have a highly-structured 
class that presents all the relevant material in an organized way with 
opportunities to practice and with specific feedback.  This would undoubtedly 
be more efficient, easier to implement, and more universally effective than 
alternatives.  One alternative would be that students are required in diverse 
courses to use APA style in their writing and get lower marks, feedback on 
errors, and pointers to learning materials.  But it is up to the students to 
actually find information about and learn APA style.  Will the students in the 
latter case learn something more than the students in the former case, even 
though they may not learn APA style as efficiently or even as well?  For 
example, which students will fare better when APA style changes yet again?  Or 
when they are asked in another class to use MLA style?  Or when they have to 
use modified APA style for their thesis (assuming this was not covered in 
either approach)?  I just feel that as we become more effective at teaching 
various competencies, we need to be careful about the possibility of 
eliminating opportunities to develop other equally or perhaps even more 
important competencies.

Take care
Jim




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