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Hi Paul
Thank you very much for your input on use of the e-meter in TROM. I was hoping to hear what the experienced auditors on the list felt about this and you stated that very thoroughly. Now here is what I see working from the other end of the meter experience spectrum. Dennis is not clear on what change is when it comes to running RI. Without the certainty that Dennis and you had from many hours of metered auditing I was floundering running RI. When I started doing RI and doing timebreaking while holding the solo cans of my Ability meter with automatic TA adjustment I had instant feed back on when I was moving my attention off my bank (TA rapidly falls) and when the process was working (TA counter started counting up divisions of drop in TA). When the TA stopped changing this verified that I was done with the topic. So from a beginners point of view an e-meter with automatic TA adjustment is a real asset. Thanks again for sharing your experienced point of view. Sincerely Pete Sent from my iPad > On Mar 23, 2014, at 2:57 AM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hi Pete, > > Sorry for the delay in getting this answer back. I wanted to be sure I > covered what was necessary and that my answer was complete and yet brief. > > I would not advise using the meter to run a TimeBreaking session to see what > reads or what is a bigger item. The reasons are, verifying a read, handling > a false read, mid-session ruds, Green Sheet and C/S 53 repairs may need to be > done, unless one is an experienced (hundreds of hours) Class VI auditor and > can run all of the repair lists, one is asking for trouble with no way out. > > I will say that one can use a meter at the beginning of TimeBreaking or RI to > get a reference and then again at the end of TimeBreaking and RI to get an > idea of how much negative & positive mind phenomena one has handled. And > then one needs to know how to handle high TA and false TA and whether or not > the TA is false or truly high. But then what is the point. How much TA drop > is enough or sufficient, there is no gauge for that. Regardless of what the > TA and the needle show at the end of TimeBreaking, how can that be > quantified. There are no standards. One's gut feel at the end of > TimeBreaking is just as good as 'the meter shows an improvement'. All that > can be said is that one's outlook and emotion has improved but one should > know that anyway. It's quite easy for one to know if they are happy, sad, > angry or depressed without a meter. > > Attention on the meter during TimeBreaking when attention should be on your > mind and what you are thinking can also be a distraction and cause no gain to > be produced as well as leave one in a bad mood. > > In a more recent post you mentioned that you determined that an objective RI > was more effective by use of the meter. This is a valid conclusion and as > such a very good application in determining which RI process is best for you. > But I suggest, that one needs to learn how to assess how they feel without > any external tests. In the long run, one's assessment of how things went and > how well things are is going to be the ultimate assessment. How many times > will one invalidate or question the meter later on and ruin all of one's > gains and achievements when one could also just say, I felt really good after > that session. > > I don't want to totally rule out using the meter but one needs to eventually > get past using it at all. That is a much better state of things than needing > a meter. It can be used as an indicator to a slight degree but one has to > cultivate their ability to know rather than be told. Being told holds the > least truth for one. One has to know and tell himself the truth. Only then > has one seen truth that one can count on and not waiver on in the future. We > have all been there before. > > As a seasoned Class VI myself with hundreds of hours of auditing, I never > used my meter for RI or TimeBreaking. I'm also Solo trained and with that > noticed that I was creating the physical reality and would know things before > the meter duplicated what I already knew to be a fact and true. That was a > major accomplishment and win for me and it became one of the reasons for > leaving Scn for I had transcended meter auditing. At that point I knew > beyond what a meter or an auditor could assess about me and tell me. After > all, I was the one creating and doing it. I can at any time produce a meter > read at will. I have demonstrated that for myself and then demonstrated it > for others to see. Especially in meter training classes. So beyond all of > Scn I knew and can know at will and this is a given for all. I'm sure you > can imagine what that meant for me and how I then looked at any kind of > 'someone telling me' what I was doing in the physical universe. This may > possibly give you an idea as to why I do transcendental meditation now. > > I'm exploring and discovering more and more how I operate in the physical > universe and expanding those capabilities. We, one and all have that > adventure in store for us. There is a whole new world beyond TROM awaiting > all. > > Keep on TROMmoing, Paul > >> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:12 PM, Pete Mclaughlin wrote: >> >> Hi Paul >> Here are two quotes from the TROM manual. >> "I ran step two absolutely flat and achieved much more case gain --- >> serenity, enormous mental calmness. (I can become completely and utterly >> calm at a moment's notice). At this point, I abandoned the use of the meter, >> because my own sense of what was happening in my mind was equal to what the >> E-meter could tell me. I would know before the meter gave it's read, look at >> it, realize what the read was, spot it, and the read would go off the meter." >> >> The Skin Galvanometer >> "If you possess such a device, and know how to use it, then it can assist >> you to determine when an exercise is no longer producing change. The meter >> no longer registers significant change. >> However, the device is by no means essential, for a being is entirely >> capable of relying upon his own estimation of change. >> Even if you do use a skin-galvanometer you will soon outstrip its >> usefulness, and will find it registering no change even though your senses >> clearly tell you that change is occurring. Thus, in the final instance, you >> are thrown back upon your own perception of these things. >> However, if you do use a skin-galvanometer to help you early on, then abide >> by what it tells you. If you know how to use it, the device will not let you >> down. Early on, the device is more sensitive than your perception; later, >> your perception is more sensitive than the device." >> >> Sincerely >> Pete >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:00 PM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Pete, >>> >>> Comments below. >>> >>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Pete Mclaughlin wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Paul >>>> >>>> What I am trying to determine is in a single auditing session should I >>>> expect that RI when run to no more change will end in a normal TA and FN? >>> That is not a given for there is no auditor with the purpose to get a >>> reading item and take it to TA blow down and F/N. It certainly can happen >>> tough. But if you don't get it, don't worry. There is no one there to go >>> earlier similar or has a withhold been missed. Don't try this on your own >>> because you have no way to test for earlier similars or W/H's you could >>> wind yourself up into a higher TA and a stuck needle. >>> >>>> If this is correct then in my solo session I should run RI to TA 3.0 and >>>> FN before starting the level I am working on. >>> >>> With TROM it is not a necessity to get yourself in session for you are not >>> giving commands and looking for reads and doing a standard auditing >>> proceedure. Just stick with the TimeBreaking. >>>> >>>> In the little Scientology auditing I did the practice was to run rudes to >>>> FN followed by the next action ordered by the C/S. >>> >>> Again, this is for the auditor to be able to know that the PC is in session >>> and metering can occur. After a TimeBreaking session you can use a meter >>> to check the TA and needle action but TimeBreaking is not metered action. >>>> >>>> Since Dennis says that if the PC has a meter he can run level 2 and 3 on >>>> the meter and abide by what it shows it would be good to put up some >>>> information on the list showing what a meter will indicate as RI and >>>> Timebreak are done in session. >>> >>> If you can point me to where Dennis says that, I will review it. I am Solo >>> trained too but don't recall this information from Dennis. I have a meter >>> but didn't use it at all on any of the Levels. >>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:14 AM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Pete, >>>>> >>>>> Answer below. >>>>> >>>>> Keep on TROMmoing, Paul >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 7:56 AM, Pete Mclaughlin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Paul >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the effect of a complete session of RI that the TA will be at normal >>>>>> for the sex of the individual. That the person will be exterior and >>>>>> ready to do the next session action? >>>>> >>>>> That is not a given. It is possible but not to be counted on. The >>>>> reason being that RI does not address the mind and it's compulsions >>>>> directly but it does free up one's free will which can be an over-riding >>>>> action to the mind but it does not directly handle a compulsive action >>>>> item of the mind. So a compulsive action of the mind still has the >>>>> opportunity to come into play in the future under the right conditions. >>>>> Ri can be a remedy to a recurring compulsion but it will not undo that >>>>> compulsion permanently. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, RI can be a changer but is not a permanent fix. The permanent fix >>>>> is Levels 2, 3 and 4. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely >>>>>> Pete >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Richard and All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My answer comes from experience as a Class VI Auditor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 10:50 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My name is Richard and I have been doing Trom for quite a while. In my >>>>>>>> experience starting off with RI's always creates a rising tone arm up >>>>>>>> to the point of a blowdown. I've assumed the starvation for mass has >>>>>>>> been satisfied at that point. But the tone arm is frequently still out >>>>>>>> of range so I use a reach and withdraw or various rubbing to handle >>>>>>>> the residual mass buildup. The end result is always an F/N at around >>>>>>>> 2.6-3.0 tone arm. I always start the chart with an in range TA. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will someone explain to me why the rubbings of either the body or >>>>>>>> objects so dramatically drops the tone arm? >>>>>>> First of all, high TA is an indication of no confront. This is an >>>>>>> indication of being interiorized. Things that can lead to >>>>>>> interiorization are overts , withholds. basically fear, anger, etc. >>>>>>> High TA is a physical phenomenon. In auditing, it is difficult to >>>>>>> audit over a high TA. The reason being that one has interiorized and >>>>>>> is not there, not in session with his body. So an auditor giving a >>>>>>> session has to get the PC reading on the meter or results will be very >>>>>>> hard to come by. The reason is that the PC is not able to produce good >>>>>>> meter readings because of the high TA. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> High TA being a physical thing means that the PC's body is not closely >>>>>>> in tune with what the PC is doing and not only are reads very hard to >>>>>>> come by but in most cases cannot even be seen with a meter. Because of >>>>>>> this, not only are reads hard to come by if at all but any kind of >>>>>>> needle movement has to be suspect as if may or may not be a reaction to >>>>>>> the auditing question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So what happens when the TA is brought down with rubbing, touching, >>>>>>> hand cream, etc. just brings the PC's body more in tune with the >>>>>>> consciousness, the soul, the spirit, the Thetan. Now if you are using >>>>>>> the meter to meter what the mind and the Thetan, consciousness are >>>>>>> doing, it can be seen on the needle movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say that somewhere between Levels 2, 3 and 4 of TROM, the TA >>>>>>> (chronic wise) should be in the 3.0 range for males and 2.0 range for >>>>>>> females. Meaning that no particular actions are necessary to bring the >>>>>>> TA down for the PC has now eliminated those reasons in the mind to back >>>>>>> away and withhold. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also bringing the TA down before doing RI or any TROM action is not a >>>>>>> necessity nor does it do any enhancing of TROM actions. It is purely a >>>>>>> physical body thing that is necessary for reliable readings on a meter >>>>>>> for an auditor to assess what the PC is doing with the auditing >>>>>>> question. TROM is not audited action. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keep on TROMmoing, Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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