� David Miller wrote:
> DaveH: > > It is "these things which are taken out of the Gospel" > > that cause people stumble. > > If there were things taken out of the Gospel, they were good things, not bad > things.� So how could these good things of God cause people to stumble? > Your reasoning is not logical. DAVEH:� Take away the NT from the Bible, and what do you have left.....Jews.� It is not that the OT is bad, but it is incomplete.� That may be an extreme example, but to suggest that lacking any of the Word of the Lord would not cause people to stumble seems a bit dicey to me. ��� Simpler examples might be doctrines surrounding the baptism of children.� If Jesus had said not to baptize them, and that was either removed or not recorded.....then it seems obvious that the disparity of beliefs we have now regarding that matter is the result. > DaveH wrote: > > IOW, it is not the things that are left IN the > > Bible that are the problem. > > Is it or is it not the alledged altered Bible that brings people under > Satan's power, DAVEH:� I don't read it that way at all.� The problem is the lack of information.� As I explained in the baptism of children example above, that the Bible does not clarify that particular doctrine does not mean it's God's fault.� But rather, it is the fault of men who may have removed such material.� That is why there a couple of books of the Bible that warn not to add/remove things that they had written.� It must have been a foreseen possibility, or the Lord would not have felt it necessary to add those warnings.� He could easily have just prevented such from happening and not even bothered with the warnings.� The only reason to give the warning is because of the possibility that it would happen.� Do you see the logic of that? > according to the Book of Mormon?� The problem IS the Bible in > its alledged ALTERED state. DAVEH:� Due to the nature of the various translations and transcriptions.........EVERY Bible is in an altered state.� While that may lead to confusion depending on the quality of the translations/transcriptions, I do not blame God or the Bible for that.� I assume that many of the men who worked with/on the Bible did the best they could under the circumstances.� If the Gospel could have been revealed and conveyed in one single book, don't you think it would have been much easier for the Lord to do it that way?� But no......the Gospel was 'dribbled' out over time through many different prophets.� And it was subject to translational variations and 'errors' (hold the anger, please) and perhaps more serious-----tampering by exclusion.� Is there evidence that what we Biblically have today is lacking books that were written by prophets of old and accepted as Scripture?� IOW, the Bible is incomplete as far as revealing all that God has revealed. ��� That those 66 books may not contain all that the Lord has revealed is not all that serious, IF one believes the Lord can continue to reveal as needed. > You are right about the problem not being with > the things left in the Bible, but it is the Bible in its present form with > the alledged missing parts that IS the problem. DAVEH:� And.....would not the missing doctrinal information explain why there are doctrinal differences today? > You are not being honest to > suggest otherwise. > > DaveH wrote: > > Let me give you an example, Glenn.� There are > > some churches that teach that children should be > > baptized.� And, there are some who teach that > > children do not need baptism.� The BofM clarifies > > that doctrine, directly with the words of Jesus as > > he spoke them to the Nephites.� It seems to me > > that IF Jesus clarified that to the people of the Bible, > > it somehow failed to get into the Bible. > > Jesus said to let the little children come unto him.� That is enough, isn't > it? DAVEH:� Be serious, DavidM.� If it were enough, then why do some churches baptize children?� Obviously, there are some folks stumbling over this doctrine!!! > DaveH wrote: > > (There is much Jesus said and did that did not get > > into the Bible.....wouldn't you agree?) > > Yes. DAVEH:� Do you think there is a reasonable chance that one of the Lord's disciples asked him if they should baptize the children, and he told them "no"?� But.....that "no" didn't make it into the Bible.....or if it did, it was later removed by somebody who found it profitable to baptize children?� (Yeah......I know.....you are probably choking on that conjecture!) > DaveH wrote: > > So it seems reasonable that Nephi in the BofM accurately > > prophesied that people would stumble over doctrines such > > as this because of what was left out of the Bible. > > But what has really happened is that people who believe the book of Mormon > stumble on the doctrine of baptism.� Mormons do not understand baptism or > why it is needed in God's kingdom.� The things added in the Book of Mormon > have caused people to stumble and come under the power of Satan. DAVEH:� I accept Jesus' words........ "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved;....."� Mk 16:16 ........If you or any other Christian wishes to believe baptism is not a requirement of salvation, then your argument is with our Saviour who went to the trouble to show us in both words and deed that baptism is necessary.� The BofM is merely a second witness to what Jesus said in the Bible. > DaveH wrote: > > The evidence seems to be in abundance today, as is > > witnessed by the doctrinal disputations amongst Christians. > > The earliest Christians had doctrinal disputations, just as the Jews before > the Christians had them.� I would say that if there is evidence in a > religious sect of the end of doctrinal disputations then that group is > outside God's will. DAVEH:� Yes....and when they had those disputations, did the Lord just throw up his hands and suggest that confusion amongst his people was OK?� Or did he send them prophets to set them straight and to reveal more of his Gospel!� Did the Lord intend for the Bible to be confusing and hard to understand so that there would be a lot of Christians disputing doctrines?� Is God the author of confusion? > Peace be with you. > David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ � ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
