From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>DAVEH: As I understand Protestant theology, God created Satan and knew what Satan would do. He also created Adam and Eve and knew what they were going to do. Unless God intended for Adam/Eve to 'fall', why do Protestants place them in a situation where he knew they would fall? Or better yet, why did God create Satan, knowing all the trouble he would ultimately cause?jt: Satan was originally created to be the covering cherub over God's throne and that worked until he became obsessed with his own beauty and decided that he was smarter than God. However, God made provision for this before the foundation of the world so He was two steps ahead.
dh: If God is all knowing, and all powerful then it would seem like either he made a mistake, or he intended that sin and failure be a part of our life.
jt: Or He saw the end result as worth the risk/price.
DAVEH: I think you are missing the point of my question, Judy.
Being all knowing and powerful, why did he not simply bind Satan (I assume you
believe he has the power to do so) and put an end to the misery and suffering
many mortals experience.
jt: In His wisdom He knew that to ensure fidelity/faithfulness on the part
of his creatures they would have to love Him as He loved them. I don't
know if you have ever studied Covenant Dave. God is a God of Covenant and
Satan's treachery is used to test them. God tests everything He
creates.
dh: I think everybody agrees that he doesn't make mistakes, so why do Protestants think sin is good for us?jt: No God doesn't make mistakes and I don't know any Protestants who think sin is good for us, do you know some who actually think this way Dave?
DAVEH: Apparently Terry does........ "If you did not know how evil
Satan is, you would never have
any way to comprehend how good God is."
any way to comprehend how good God is."
jt: I've heard that saying before but I don't believe it. I don't want to
know how evil Satan is, the ground he had in me was bad enough and by God's
grace and power it is being removed from him as my mind is renewed in
Christ.
dh: Yes, I know......Protestants don't believe sin is "good for us", but I don't know how else to word it. Apparently there is a 'good' purpose for sin.......I'm just curious what value Protestants find in sin.jt: None that I can see, but it is there and getting worse in our generation. However without holiness noone is going to see the Lord. So rather than value sin we should turn from it and embrace righteousness and holiness that is, if we are to be part of the Church Jesus is coming to claim.jt: I guess I am protestant because I'm not rcc
DAVEH: Hmmmmmm.......I find that to be an interesting
comment.......
jt: The term protestant is not scriptural. It comes from the Reformation
when Luther protested rcc apostasy.
but I don't find any good in sin, I just accept that it is a fact of life, that I was born with that kind of an inheritance. It took me a while to learn that Jesus had paid the price for me to be free from sin and reconciled to God because IMO generationally our thinking has become so skewed that today most protestants don't have a problem with what God calls sin. The fruit of sin is more sin, it's an ongoing cycle into decadence and destruction.
DAVEH: I understand that, Judy. I'm trying to go a step further
to find out what purpose God feels it serves for us to experience sin, misery
and agony.
jt: God has set a standard (His Word) and if we obey we are blessed, if we
disobey we are cursed (see Deut 28,29) so the onus is on us and our
children. God Himself wants to bless and is not willing that any should
perish, He is much more merciful and long suffering than any man.
dh: He had the power to prevent it in A&E's day, and he could stop it
now, but for some reason he has not. I'm trying to figure out what
Protestants think that reason is.
jt: He could have stopped it and bound the devil at the price of making us
zombies, puppets, a creation under total and complete control. Something
like Communism or the Nazis but this is totally against His nature and
character. He wants to fellowship with those who are at peace with Him and not a
bunch of rebels. Look at the situation with the rich young ruler who
came to Christ. He was willing to keep all of God's Law and said he had
done so from his youth. However, he lacked one thing in that he wasn't willing
to give up the greed in his heart and so went away sorrowful and Jesus didn't
chase him down.
jt: As for David murdering Uriah. I know in our natural thinking we excuse him by saying he didn't actually do it; but God held him responsible in 1 Kings 15:5 we are told "David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite." It took David a year and a visit from the prophet to repent but when he did his repentance was deep (see Psalm 51).
DAVEH: Welllllllllllll.......you are going to drag me into this
tangent, eh! That's OK......I'll just make a brief comment about
it. IMHO, I do not equate "the matter of Uriah the Hittite" with cold
blooded murder, as you implied.
jt: It was planned in secret and David was counting on him being killed on
the front lines to hide the fact that he had fathered Uriah's wifes child.
How much more cold blooded do you want it to be? However, the righteous
judgment of God says that whatever is done in secret will be shouted from the
housetops and indeed this is the case in point with David's sin.
dh: Scripture does not use the term "murder" or similar, so I find it
curious that many Christians connote it that way. Seems to me like they
(you) may be reading more into it than what was stated.
jt: Scripture does use the term "murder and murderers" In John 8:44 we are
told that Satan was a murderer from the beginning; and before the cross the
people chose a murderer to be freed rather than Jesus.
jt: I have a question - are you really a Mormon and if so how so?
DAVEH: LOL......Forgive me for laughing, but I forgot that you
are rather new to TT. Yes, I'm LDS (Mormon). I've been a member for
nearly 48 years. I'm not sure how to answer your "how so" question
though. Did you have a specific question in mind?
jt: My how so question is asking - were you born into Mormonism or
persuaded into it? If the latter then what do you find so appealing about
it?
Grace and Peace,
Judy
