DAVEH: God had the ability to
create a world without sin, and to offer an easy salvation. But that is
not the way he did it.
jt: God did create a world without sin
and He does offer an easy salvation, after all it was he who provided the
lamb.
*****DAVEH: And did he not also provide the
temptation? Doesn't it seem likely he intentionally created both for a
purpose?
jt: No he didn't because God can not be tempted with evil, neither does he
tempt any man.
DaveH: Therefore, I believe God had a
reason for allowing sin to be a part of his plans. (Hence the subject line
to which we are now returning.) I'm trying to find out why Protestants
think God 'created sin'. (Or perhaps that's a poor way of stating
it......why you think God allows sin to exist.)
jt: God did not 'create sin'
*****DAVEH: I agree......
jt: No you don't agree because you keep on coming back to your
belief that God is responsible and - everything he created was
good.
*****DAVEH: Is "the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil" considered 'good' from a Protestant's (or yours) perspective?
jt: Possibly to look at but not to eat from as they were warned....Sin is
not good. Would you rather have a heavenly dictator standing over you with
a whip to make sure you do right? This is Satan's plan and it is called
'bondage' it is what Jesus died to deliver us from.
DAVEH: I fully agree. But let
me explain it from a different angle, Judy. God created Adam & Eve,
knowing beforehand that they would succumb to temptation. (I assume you
agree with that.) Then he places a temptation in the garden, knowing they
would partake of the forbidden fruit, and what the consequences would
be. If instead, God had simply not put that tempting fruit before
them, would you then suggest he is a "heavenly dictator "?
jt: I'm not going there - God made them
free will agents. He is there for us when we do things His way and this is
the lesson. My belief is that the 'fruit' was symbolic. It was a tree of fallen wisdom ie: the
knowledge of good and evil whereas all they had known was good because they were
innocent. But God always makes a way of escape and they didn't have to
succumb. Especially not Adam. He made a choice. Eve was
deceived.
*****DAVEH: My mind keeps coming back to the
fundamental question of why God put that temptation there IF it was to lead (and
God knew the ramifications) to the magnitude of sacrifice his only begotten Son
would have to suffer through.
jt: Why keep beating a dead horse? That's how it is and going over and over
it will not change scripture, nor will it change God.
DaveH: Not at all. I think he would
be like a parent concerned about the welfare of his children, by shielding them
from unnecessary evil. Most parents would not place their children
in a dangerous situation when they know the outcome of that
situation......
jt: Adam and Eve were created grown
people, so they were hardly infants and yes God knew what they would do, he
allows us to be tested so that we will know how frail we are. ATST he gives us
what we choose and if we choose the adversary then we get to live with
him.
*****DAVEH: Putting this back into a human
perspective, IF you knew that allowing one of your children to be tempted would
cause another of your children to die in agony, would you still put that
temptation in front of your first child just so he could see how frail he
is?
jt: This is a moot point DaveH because I'm not God and yes, my children
have been tempted and they have succumbed, so have I in the past but we have a
loving heavenly Father who allows nothing to come our way unless it first comes
by way of him. He has given us a way of escape in that we can go to the
throne of grace and repent. He has always been faithful and I don't complain or
grumble.
DaveH: UNLESS there is a good reason for
those children to experience that situation. I don't know if that makes
any sense to you, Judy. As a parent, I hope you can see the similarity of
the situations that I'm trying to convey.
jt: I understand what you are saying but
not the point of all of it. Why accuse God? This is just the way it is and
if there is more to it that we should know he will reveal this also - in his
time, although it's not a ?? to me. I accept the fact that he is God and knows
what he is doing. I haven't created anything so what right have I to
question his lovingkindness toward his creatures?
*****DAVEH: Then I suppose it would be a mystery
until then.....or do you disagree?
jt: Like I've said - not to me but if you are so curious then you need to
ask about it..... I've been doing a little research, and have read that your
Church believes that there was some kind of a council of gods in heaven and that
Lucifer and Jesus (who are supposedly spirit brothers) both presented their
plans. Lucifer's plan was to force men to worship god and Jesus' plan was
to show them how to worship god. Lucifer's plan was rejected, and Jesus'
plan was accepted. (Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:103) Is the above what
you believe DaveH?
DAVEH: Yes.
jt: This is interesting, why isn't it spoken of in scripture. I also read that Mormons believe God lives on a planet called Kobe and that he has many wives. If this is also one of your beliefs then how can you claim that Mormonism is not extra biblical and does not add to God's Word. God is Spirit and there is no marriage in heaven - Jesus said so.
Judy
