Dean Moore
> [Original Message]
> From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 1/5/2004 12:03:14 PM
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Extra-Biblical Revelation
>
> Dean wrote:
> > but didn't those same disciples give us those things
> > "to come" in the bible-
>
> No. This is a classic cessationist viewpoint given by Baptists and many
> others, but it is as much a false teaching as anything you have heard
> from the Mormons.
Dean writes:
To draw that conclusion one has to disprove 90% of my words-change the
meaning of each word i wrote- place an idol in front of Jesus Christ and
swear you are being honest(on the Mormon bible of course) while lying the
whole time.
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>
> The fact is that most of the New Testament was written by those who were
> not even being spoken to by Jesus in this passage of John. Furthermore,
> even of those who did write Scripture for us, they received much more
> revelation than what they wrote in Scripture.
Dean writes:
So the Spirit of God only directed those that wrote the NT to only give
the smaller part for us-or is it possible that the greater part is included
in the smaller part that is written-one just has to study this compressed
word to draw out the bigger part. The fact that most of the bible wasn't
written by a disciple proves my point-the words of Paul are included in the
NT.
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > to bring something new is in my opinion
> > the building blocks of a cult.
>
> It depends on what that something new is. Clearly the new things being
> brought into the church by the apostle Paul was not a cult, and neither
> were the Corinthians headed that way even though they obviously had
> revelation apart from Scripture expressed within the church.
Dean writes:
Two points here:
1.Pauls writings are included in the NT-this doesn't prove extra-biblical
revelation-it help to confirm the completeness of the NT.
2.How do we know that the Corinthians had revelation apart from
scripture-Did you not discover this in scripture?
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > Later we are told not to add nor remove any thing
> > from this book-which is to being about severe punishment
> > (Rev.22:19). So if i-in my limited view-make a statement
> > in the area that God said"..." then this statement must
> > be backed up by prior teachings of the bible.
>
> Not everything God says becomes Scripture, so a person can prophesy
> ("Thus says the Lord...") yet not be adding to the book. A person might
> have a dream and be taught something that is not in the Bible at all.
> One thing we should recognize is that revelation would not contradict
> the revelation of Scripture. That is not the same thing as saying that
> the revelation must be something that is already taught in the Bible.
Dean writes:
This revelation must also be in agreement with scripture-not just "not
contradict".
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>
> Keep in mind that revelation often has nothing to do with doctrine. For
> example, when Agabus revealed that Paul would be bound in Jerusalem,
> that was a revelation apart from Scripture. Nevertheless, it really had
> nothing to do with doctrine, and it was not adding to Scripture in any
> way. Same thing could be said concerning the prophecy that famine would
> come.
Dean writes:
But Agabus revealed this in scripture-not outside of scripture. Give me an
example of extra-biblical revelation-this would help me understand your
point?
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>
> Dean wrote:
> > To add a new thing is a mistake. How do we know truth
> > spoken on this site-all here use the bible to support
> > their claims-(with the exception of Mormons and Pagans-
> > no offence intended). To bring a "new thing" is suspect.
>
> You seem to have the premise that truth cannot exist outside of the
> Bible, and that the Bible contains all the truth that can be known. In
> my opinion this is an extremely absurd presupposition. I'm not trying
> to be offensive. I'm just trying to help you understand how strongly I
> disagree. Do you think we should discuss this premise in more detail?
Dean writes:
I am not taking you words as offensive.I also think one should have passion
in their discussions concerning God.Yes we should continue with this
issue-absolutely.
Truth can exist in the form God chooses-in this case he chose the bible for
that truth-the words Jesus spoke was so important that even the angles
wanted to hear what He has to say-What he spoke was so important that he
was called the Word of God-and the word made flesh-that put a strong
emphasis on the words of the bible that Jesus spoke. Many men thru out
history died to give us the bible-these were men beloved by God-yet they
had to die for that word-as Jesus came to die for our sins and to give us
the word of God.
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Dean wrote:
> > So yes we can have revelations outside the bible -
> > but those revelations must be supported from inside
> > the bible. What think ye?
>
> I think we can go beyond the Bible with revelations in the same way that
> you go beyond your fifth grade math book. We don't expect those
> revelations to contradict the building blocks taught, but we surely
> would hope for them at times to go beyond it.
Dean writes:
To go beyond a fifth grade math book one would have to outgrow that math
book-the same with the bible-to out grow it cannot be done. The height and
berth of it cannot be breached-why would we need more?
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>
> The point is that the Bible teaches us to expect such revelations by the
> Holy Spirit. If we do not believe this, then we really do not believe
> the Bible. Just look at the passage that Peter quoted when the church
> of Jerusalem was born:
Dean writes:
I understand the Holy Ghost to teach us the deeper meaning of God's word
and to direct us in many matters related to our daily walk-but to give us
words different from the bible i cannot agree.Jesus taught the spirit of
God-why would a teacher give different guidance-can it said that God
contradicts himself?
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>
> And it shall come to pass in the last days, saint God, I will pour out
> of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
> prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall
> dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out
> in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:17-18 KJV)
Dean writes:
i fail to see where this contradicts may statement?
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>
> The Bible is not what Jesus promised would guide us into all truth. The
> Holy Spirit is the promised teacher, counselor, comforter, advocate, and
> the one that will guide us into all truth. The Bible certainly has
> functioned in the lives of many of us to bring us to truth, but
> ultimately the Bible points us to the Holy Spirit which is the true
> promise of Christ. We are to receive the Living Word not the Written
> Word. Our lives should be focused upon the Spirit rather than the
> Letter. Use the Letter for correction and instruction, and in all
> matters pertaining to sound doctrine, but let our lives be focused upon
> the Spirit of Christ that we may live and walk in the Spirit.
Dean writes:
Sounds like church of God teachings to me.The bible doesn't point to the
Holy Spirit-the bible points to Jesus Christ. Anyone filled with the Holy
Ghost will not be running around saying "Holy Ghost this" and " Holy Ghost
that"-they will be saving "Jesus Christ this" and "Jesus Christ
that"-because the Spirit of God will give us the words of Jesus to speak to
this lost world -not Jim Jones nor Joseph Smith.
2 Tim.3:13-16
13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,deceiving,and
being deceived.
Here are the warning for false teachers that go outside the bible and
corrupt the words in the bible.
14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned...
Here we are told to continue in what we have learned from the
scriptures-not to learn something "new".
15.And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,which are
able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ
Jesus.
Here the scripture is able to make us wise unto salvation-it does not say
the scripture plus extra-biblical revelation.
16. All scripture is giving by inspirit ion of God,and is profitable for
doctrine,for reproof,for correction,for instruction in righteousness.
Here we are told that the scripture is to teach us what we are to believe
and what to practice-why would we need more?This is our instructor nothing
else- no one else. To go by the teachings and prophecies of others is to
open the doors to deception and seducing spirits-look where it got those
poor Mormons-a wise man will learn from the mistakes of others not make the
same mistake.
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>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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