Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FTR........Let me say that LDS theology teaches that anything
revealed by God is 'scriptural'. But that is distinctly different than
saying it is canonical. We have 4 books that we consider canon of
scripture.....the "Standard Works".
revealed by God is 'scriptural'. But that is distinctly different than
saying it is canonical. We have 4 books that we consider canon of
scripture.....the "Standard Works".
The words of the prophet seer revelator are equal to the std works! By the way seer is just the old word for prophet 1 Sam 9:9 another one of those errors (if I err excuse me)
So it should be prophet prophet & revelator. Or maybe there is a LDS difference between a prophet & seer.
You try to draw a distinction about a "cannon that the LDS GA's know knothing about.
Referring to the 4 std works "We rely therefore on the teachings of the living oracles of God AS OF EQUAL VALIDITY with the doctrines of the written word." Articles of Faith p6 Apostle James A Talmage
"In addition to these 4 books of scripture, the inspired works of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, church publications and instructions to local priesthood leaders." - Gospel Principles, p.51-52
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
> DavidH, that is an excuse for the GA's or Prophets of the LDS that I have
> heard before. It is just a way to dismiss the idiotic and uneducated
> statements of men with no god-given authority, but only what the LDS church
> allows them to have.
>
> Based on the fact that several GA's or Prophets (I am not sure of who GA's
> are. Are they also "the prophets"?) have preached "sermons" that totally
> contradict not only the Bible, but similar verses in the BoM, as we have
> most clearly seen with the current "virgin" thread, either they are ignorant
> of their own works, are false prophets, or are liars (and possibly all
> three).
>
> What is going on? If my preacher got up before the congregation and claimed
> something that tolly contradicted scripture, I would be upset and would
> certainly confront him about the issue until it was resolved, one way or the
> other.
>
> How can you honestly sit back and read the words of your "prophets", see
> that they contradict your own standard works, and the Bible, then slough it
> off by saying it wasn't revelation, so it does not count.
DAVEH: Not at all, Perry. I just view their words in the context them meant them to be understood. IMO, you are putting them in a context meant to disparage the Church and those who follow Christ's precepts as revealed to his prophets. IOW.....You
look at what the Church leaders say to find any perceived contradiction you can, while I look at them as servants of the Lord who are trying to convey what the Lord wants men to do.
> If that is so,
> then I guess you can ONLY believe what they say when they it is prefaced by
> "thus saith the Lord".
DAVEH: Again, that is not the case. When they say "", then one knows they aren't just offering an opinion. When they don't use that phrase, they may still be revealing the Lord's wishes, but that is not necessarily always the case.....as I have
explained before, sometimes the do choose to offer opinions.
> Any other time you have to assume they are blathering
> idiots, and just may be spewing out untruth and heresy, right?
DAVEH: Once again Perry.....you are showing your negative biases. You will believe what you have set in your mind to believe. If you want to know what I believe, go ahead and ask me. If you want to tell me what I believe.....don't expect much
response.
> Plus, didn't at least one GA point out that if a LDS prophet says it, it is
> as if god himself said it? You can't have it both ways, DavidH.
DAVEH: Sure I can, Perry......IF I take their words in context with what they are trying to convey. It is you who do not want to understand their words, and desire to show a contradiction when none exists.
> Perry
>
> >From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] False teachers False prophets
> >Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:37:19 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> >David Miller wrote:
> >
> > > Kevin wrote:
> > > > I am stating the OFFICIAL General Authority Position.
> > > > This is the ONLY position. According to LDS prophets
> > > > they are the only ones allowed to state LDS doctrine.
> > >
> > > I would like to hear from DaveH and Blaine about this. Has Kevin been
> > > giving official General Authority Position?
> >
> >DAVEH: Not in my opinion.
> >
> > > It seems to me that Glenn
> > > would quote from the Journal of Discourses like Kevin does, and the
> > > response was that this was not considered Mormon doctrine.
> >
> >DAVEH: Correct. Material found in the JofD may or may not be official LDS
> >doctrine. The JofD are simply an accumulation of sermons (for the most
> >part....there may be some that were not ever sermons---I'm not sure)
> >preached back in the days (19th
> >Century) before modern communicational methods. They were published in
> >England so the LDS folks there would have some idea of what the LDS folks
> >on this side of the pond were hearing.
> >
> > I have found a lot of detractors claim that anything spoken by a
> >latter-day prophet is absolutely correct and can be taken as doctrine. I
> >personally disagree with such a supposition, and don't know any LDS folks
> >who think differently....though there
> >may be some.
> >
> > There is a popular joke floating around (the LDS world) that says
> >Catholicism teaches the Pope is infallible, but no Catholics believe it.
> >And.......Mormon theology teaches the Prophet is fallible, but no Mormons
> >believe it. I don't know if any
> >TTers find that funny, but in Mormonism it is quite humorous.
> >
> > FTR........Let me say that LDS theology teaches that anything revealed
> >by God is 'scriptural'. But that is distinctly different than saying it is
> >canonical. We have 4 books that we consider canon of scripture.....the
> >"Standard Works". What if
> >found inside those works is considered doctrinal in the Church. That does
> >not mean that some LDS folks don't interpret some of what's found there
> >differently though. As in reading the Bible, there can be several
> >different ways passages can be
> >understood.
> >
> > When the GAs (General Authorities) say something, it can be considered
> >to be conjecture on their part, guessing, speculation.......or......more
> >than likely it is considered to be material they/we believe is revealed to
> >them from the Lord. Most often,
> >that is what they preach in their sermons. One seldom hears GAs
> >speculating when they preach. But they may do so in other situations or
> >even in their writings. What most LDS folks consider to be the most
> >important words from one of our Church leaders
> >is when/if they say "thus saith the Lord". However, even using such
> >language does not make it canonical. For it to be canonized, their words
> >would have to be included in the Standard Works.
> >
> > I hope that clarifies it to your satisfaction, DavidM. And......I
> >hope what I've said is reasonably accurate. Blaine.....feel free to
> >correct me or add upon what I've said if you feel compelled.
> >
> > > Can I get
> > > some clarification on this please?
> > >
> > > Peace be with you.
> > > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
> >
> >--
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Dave Hansen
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.langlitz.com
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >If you wish to receive
> >things I find interesting,
> >I maintain Five email lists...
> >JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
> >STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
> >
> >
> >----------
> >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> >http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
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> ----------
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>
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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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