ROTFLOL!
I can see it now.
If the LDS were deliberately using words with double meanings would they when questioned about it, turn around and say:
"OK we fess up we are using SUBTERFUGE"
For Blaine, attacking false doctrine is comparable to a "personal attack"
In general, I have found LDS to be fair & industrious people.
But when it comes to the LDS belief system, I have encountered obfuscation, half-truths and even deliberate mendacity.
Any one who is opposed to Mormonism is an "Anti-Mormon"
When I post quotes from LDS leaders I am "mean-spirited and dishonest"
LDS vehemently stand for the right to define themselves & their beliefs, but are quick to compartmentalize all others!
Of course LDS theology makes "perfect sense" but Orthodox beliefs are vague, senseless, impossible to comprehend and ridiculous.
Somehow no one has authority to speak & delineate LDS beliefs. Even if we appeal to the highest LDS authorities, it is labeled "opinions"
By labeling others as “ill-informed” LDS hope to eliminate the voices of those best positioned to expose their most heretical doctrines.
Sounds like a persecution complex to me.
"the endless subterfuges and prevarications which our present condition impose . . . threaten to make our rising generation a race of deceivers." Charles W. Penrose to LDS President John Taylor, 1887
Gospel Teachings About Lying by Elder Dallin H. Oaks
This fireside address was given to faculty, students, and alumni of BYU on September 12, 1993.
"Some have suggested that it is morally permissible to lie to promote a good cause. For example, some Mormons have taught or implied that lying is okay if you are lying for the Lord."
This fireside address was given to faculty, students, and alumni of BYU on September 12, 1993.
"Some have suggested that it is morally permissible to lie to promote a good cause. For example, some Mormons have taught or implied that lying is okay if you are lying for the Lord."
President James E. Faust, Second Counselor in the First Presidency of the LDS church
“There are different shades of truth-telling. When we tell little white lies we become progressively color blind. It is better to remain silent than to mislead. The degree to which each of us tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth depends on our conscience.”
"Subterfuge and cunning are often better allies than a fierce heart and a strong back." - Count Fenring from Dune 2000 by Frank Herbert
Apostle Dallin H. Oaks:
"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors." (Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii f28)
"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors." (Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii f28)
LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer gave an address to the Fifth Annual Church Educational System Religious Educators’ Symposium, in Provo, Utah at Brigham Young University. In his talk titled “The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect,” Packer opines that there are events in LDS history that should be repressed, because they are not “faith-building”:
“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”
“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”
“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”
“Some things that are true are not very useful.”
“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities.”
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”
“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”
“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”
“Some things that are true are not very useful.”
“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities.”
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Blaine wrote to Perry:
> Are you saying either DaveH or I deliberately mislead?
> You seem to be implying this in some of your posts,
> and particularly this one.
Blaine, if it is ok with you and Perry, I would like to extend a little
latitude about the ad hominem rule to explore this idea a little.
Personally, I have found Perry's "definition alerts" helpful.
Perry has the opinion that both you and DaveH knowingly mislead us by
using these definitions. I'm not sure that is true, but it does seem
like he might have a valid point. For example, if non-Mormons going to
heaven does not mean the same thing to Mormons as it does to non-Mormons
because Mormons believe in three heavens with very few people going to
hell, that needs to be explained for proper communication to occur.
Likewise, if "like God" means becoming God instead of becoming more like
God in moral character, then that also should be explained.
So the question to you and DaveH is, do you knowingly use terms that you
know mislead others, or are you so engrossed within Mormonism that you
don't really think about how others on this list might be
misunderstanding you?
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
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